Bill7 said:
Engine oil flush recommendation.
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Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
....they leave 10-20% of the used oil in the engine for another full OCI. So this percentage will now have twice the hours and miles, which contaminates the new oil, and exposes the engine to higher, wear contaminents, sludge, and combustion byproducts.. Complete a full flush between oil changes.
Sir, I do NOT agree with this statement at all.
It is merely hearsay and there isn't any proof to support your claims.
The risk of leaving 10%-20% of the "old" oil in your engine each oil change is ZERO.
There is NOTHING that occurs that causes the calamity you claim that it does.
I doubt you even know the definition of hearsay. I have the evidence that within the first few miles, there are negative affects to the engine and new oil. . What proof do you have to support your claims?
Okay, let me make sure I'm reading this right..
- Even though the engine was running fine, and likely still being protected/lubricated by the old oil PRIOR to the oil being changed...
- Even though that old oil was probably still well within its operating limits with remaining TBN higher than the TAN, and sufficient detergents, AW and AF additives...
... if I leave just 10-20% of it in the engine, mixed with BRAND NEW quality motor oil, I'm causing negative affects to the engine AND the new oil?
I'm calling B.S. on this one. You have no clue.
----
Now, to the OP: Skip the flush. I get where you're coming from, but a top quality brand-name motor oil, run on a 'severe duty' schedule, will do sufficient cleaning over another 10,000 - 20,000 miles of driving, and you'll never even have to question whether you've left enough in to cause any damage.
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
....they leave 10-20% of the used oil in the engine for another full OCI. So this percentage will now have twice the hours and miles, which contaminates the new oil, and exposes the engine to higher, wear contaminents, sludge, and combustion byproducts.. Complete a full flush between oil changes.
Sir, I do NOT agree with this statement at all.
It is merely hearsay and there isn't any proof to support your claims.
The risk of leaving 10%-20% of the "old" oil in your engine each oil change is ZERO.
There is NOTHING that occurs that causes the calamity you claim that it does.
I doubt you even know the definition of hearsay. I have the evidence that within the first few miles, there are negative affects to the engine and new oil. . What proof do you have to support your claims?
Okay, let me make sure I'm reading this right..
- Even though the engine was running fine, and likely still being protected/lubricated by the old oil PRIOR to the oil being changed...
- Even though that old oil was probably still well within its operating limits with remaining TBN higher than the TAN, and sufficient detergents, AW and AF additives...
... if I leave just 10-20% of it in the engine, mixed with BRAND NEW quality motor oil, I'm causing negative affects to the engine AND the new oil?
I'm calling B.S. on this one. You have no clue.
----
Now, to the OP: Skip the flush. I get where you're coming from, but a top quality brand-name motor oil, run on a 'severe duty' schedule, will do sufficient cleaning over another 10,000 - 20,000 miles of driving, and you'll never even have to question whether you've left enough in to cause any damage.
Originally Posted by SirTanon
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
....they leave 10-20% of the used oil in the engine for another full OCI. So this percentage will now have twice the hours and miles, which contaminates the new oil, and exposes the engine to higher, wear contaminents, sludge, and combustion byproducts.. Complete a full flush between oil changes.
Sir, I do NOT agree with this statement at all.
It is merely hearsay and there isn't any proof to support your claims.
The risk of leaving 10%-20% of the "old" oil in your engine each oil change is ZERO.
There is NOTHING that occurs that causes the calamity you claim that it does.
I doubt you even know the definition of hearsay. I have the evidence that within the first few miles, there are negative affects to the engine and new oil. . What proof do you have to support your claims?
Okay, let me make sure I'm reading this right..
- Even though the engine was running fine, and likely still being protected/lubricated by the old oil PRIOR to the oil being changed...
- Even though that old oil was probably still well within its operating limits with remaining TBN higher than the TAN, and sufficient detergents, AW and AF additives...
... if I leave just 10-20% of it in the engine, mixed with BRAND NEW quality motor oil, I'm causing negative affects to the engine AND the new oil?
I'm calling B.S. on this one. You have no clue.
----
Now, to the OP: Skip the flush. I get where you're coming from, but a top quality brand-name motor oil, run on a 'severe duty' schedule, will do sufficient cleaning over another 10,000 - 20,000 miles of driving, and you'll never even have to question whether you've left enough in to cause any damage.
For the average consumer, how do they know if the old is still protecting/lubricating,dispersing,inhibiting,modifying, etc and still within specfications. Oh yeah the engine still starts and no screaching of metal parts and no massive amounts of oil billowing out the exhaust. They don't. They just do what others have told them to do for years.
For the average consumer, how do they know if the old oil still had adequate TBN, viscosity, low fuel dilution, low oxidation and sufficient additives. They don't, They just do what others have told them to do for years.
If the oil was tested, and it was suitable for further use, why change it. Why do most people change it otherwise, Because they just do what others have told them to do for years. Its called habitual behavior.
For the 2% that actually do oil analysis and are curious as to the quality of oil and condition of their engine, when discovering there are problems with the oil, contamination and causing excessive wear. they still leave 10-20% behind with their next oil change. Why, because that is what others have always told them to do.
I am not the one that has no clue.
Would you buy oil, and use it in your new luxury car that had on the back label a statement that says, "THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS 10-20% USED MOTOR OIL OF UNCERTAIN QUALITY, SUITABILITY, KNOWN WEAR METAL, AIR BORNE CONTAMINATES, AND POSISBLE FUEL DILUTION, ANTIFREEZE, SLUDGE, VARNISH,OTHER COMBUSTION BYPRODUCTS AND HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FOR UPWARDS OF 5000 - 7500 MILES OR MORE. WE ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR THE USE OF THIS PRODUCT"
But for 98% of the consumers out there, that is what they are doing and being mislead by so called experts in the field, and fellow consumers on this forum. Engine testing labs, flush their engines four times between runs to ensure no containments are left in the engine.
I have UOA of my enigne that showed 25% retention of wear metals, loss of viscosity, loss of TBN, decrease in some additives, increase in oxidation, and the oil was so dark that you could not see light through it after only 15 minutes of operation.
After a full flush, my oil, showed no retention of wear metals, the nearly the same TBN, Viscosity, oxidation, etc.after 15 minutes of use. After 250 miles the oil was still clear enough you could see light through it.
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
....they leave 10-20% of the used oil in the engine for another full OCI. So this percentage will now have twice the hours and miles, which contaminates the new oil, and exposes the engine to higher, wear contaminents, sludge, and combustion byproducts.. Complete a full flush between oil changes.
Sir, I do NOT agree with this statement at all.
It is merely hearsay and there isn't any proof to support your claims.
The risk of leaving 10%-20% of the "old" oil in your engine each oil change is ZERO.
There is NOTHING that occurs that causes the calamity you claim that it does.
I doubt you even know the definition of hearsay. I have the evidence that within the first few miles, there are negative affects to the engine and new oil. . What proof do you have to support your claims?
Okay, let me make sure I'm reading this right..
- Even though the engine was running fine, and likely still being protected/lubricated by the old oil PRIOR to the oil being changed...
- Even though that old oil was probably still well within its operating limits with remaining TBN higher than the TAN, and sufficient detergents, AW and AF additives...
... if I leave just 10-20% of it in the engine, mixed with BRAND NEW quality motor oil, I'm causing negative affects to the engine AND the new oil?
I'm calling B.S. on this one. You have no clue.
----
Now, to the OP: Skip the flush. I get where you're coming from, but a top quality brand-name motor oil, run on a 'severe duty' schedule, will do sufficient cleaning over another 10,000 - 20,000 miles of driving, and you'll never even have to question whether you've left enough in to cause any damage.
For the average consumer, how do they know if the old is still protecting/lubricating,dispersing,inhibiting,modifying, etc and still within specfications. Oh yeah the engine still starts and no screaching of metal parts and no massive amounts of oil billowing out the exhaust. They don't. They just do what others have told them to do for years.
For the average consumer, how do they know if the old oil still had adequate TBN, viscosity, low fuel dilution, low oxidation and sufficient additives. They don't, They just do what others have told them to do for years.
If the oil was tested, and it was suitable for further use, why change it. Why do most people change it otherwise, Because they just do what others have told them to do for years. Its called habitual behavior.
For the 2% that actually do oil analysis and are curious as to the quality of oil and condition of their engine, when discovering there are problems with the oil, contamination and causing excessive wear. they still leave 10-20% behind with their next oil change. Why, because that is what others have always told them to do.
I am not the one that has no clue.
Would you buy oil, and use it in your new luxury car that had on the back label a statement that says, "THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS 10-20% USED MOTOR OIL OF UNCERTAIN QUALITY, SUITABILITY, KNOWN WEAR METAL, AIR BORNE CONTAMINATES, AND POSISBLE FUEL DILUTION, ANTIFREEZE, SLUDGE, VARNISH,OTHER COMBUSTION BYPRODUCTS AND HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FOR UPWARDS OF 5000 - 7500 MILES OR MORE. WE ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR THE USE OF THIS PRODUCT"
But for 98% of the consumers out there, that is what they are doing and being mislead by so called experts in the field, and fellow consumers on this forum. Engine testing labs, flush their engines four times between runs to ensure no containments are left in the engine.
I have UOA of my enigne that showed 25% retention of wear metals, loss of viscosity, loss of TBN, decrease in some additives, increase in oxidation, and the oil was so dark that you could not see light through it after only 15 minutes of operation.
After a full flush, my oil, showed no retention of wear metals, the nearly the same TBN, Viscosity, oxidation, etc.after 15 minutes of use. After 250 miles the oil was still clear enough you could see light through it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Bill7
Sorry, I am missing the context of this. The current discussion is whether doing an engine flush, then drain the oil/solvents out, and then add new oil still leaves a small amount of the solvents from the flush in the engine mixed with the new oil, which over the next 5,000 miles will harm the engine.
Are you saying a 2nd oil change a few miles later would be required to get the remaining solvents out?
That would depend on how much oil remains after the drain plug goes back in, and the sump gets filled with fresh oil. It would vary between vehicles and how long the oil was allowed to drain, how hot the oil was when it was drained, etc. Quick lube places don't spend much time allowing oil to drain. Bottom line if you want all the flush out, it might not be a bad idea to refill the sump with fresh cheap oil, a cheap filter, drive a few miles and dump that, and change the filter. OCD behavior, some people might say. Now you'll have residual cheap oil remaining, to mix in with the preferred oil.
Sorry, I am missing the context of this. The current discussion is whether doing an engine flush, then drain the oil/solvents out, and then add new oil still leaves a small amount of the solvents from the flush in the engine mixed with the new oil, which over the next 5,000 miles will harm the engine.
Are you saying a 2nd oil change a few miles later would be required to get the remaining solvents out?
That would depend on how much oil remains after the drain plug goes back in, and the sump gets filled with fresh oil. It would vary between vehicles and how long the oil was allowed to drain, how hot the oil was when it was drained, etc. Quick lube places don't spend much time allowing oil to drain. Bottom line if you want all the flush out, it might not be a bad idea to refill the sump with fresh cheap oil, a cheap filter, drive a few miles and dump that, and change the filter. OCD behavior, some people might say. Now you'll have residual cheap oil remaining, to mix in with the preferred oil.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Bill7
Sorry, I am missing the context of this. The current discussion is whether doing an engine flush, then drain the oil/solvents out, and then add new oil still leaves a small amount of the solvents from the flush in the engine mixed with the new oil, which over the next 5,000 miles will harm the engine.
Are you saying a 2nd oil change a few miles later would be required to get the remaining solvents out?
That would depend on how much oil remains after the drain plug goes back in, and the sump gets filled with fresh oil. It would vary between vehicles and how long the oil was allowed to drain, how hot the oil was when it was drained, etc. Quick lube places don't spend much time allowing oil to drain. Bottom line if you want all the flush out, it might not be a bad idea to refill the sump with fresh cheap oil, a cheap filter, drive a few miles and dump that, and change the filter. OCD behavior, some people might say. Now you'll have residual cheap oil remaining, to mix in with the preferred oil.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Bill7
Sorry, I am missing the context of this. The current discussion is whether doing an engine flush, then drain the oil/solvents out, and then add new oil still leaves a small amount of the solvents from the flush in the engine mixed with the new oil, which over the next 5,000 miles will harm the engine.
Are you saying a 2nd oil change a few miles later would be required to get the remaining solvents out?
That would depend on how much oil remains after the drain plug goes back in, and the sump gets filled with fresh oil. It would vary between vehicles and how long the oil was allowed to drain, how hot the oil was when it was drained, etc. Quick lube places don't spend much time allowing oil to drain. Bottom line if you want all the flush out, it might not be a bad idea to refill the sump with fresh cheap oil, a cheap filter, drive a few miles and dump that, and change the filter. OCD behavior, some people might say. Now you'll have residual cheap oil remaining, to mix in with the preferred oil.
Just to add to the above comment. One does not need to recycle or waste the new flushed oil. It could be used in lawn/garden equipment, or used in another older vehicle, such as a grocery-getter, low use work/farm truck. My last full flush, which is Amsoil OE with 10% used oil, will be going into my daughters, 2004 Saturn with 200K miles. We only paid $1K and it has been a reliable car for 3 years getting her to school and back.
Originally Posted by Bill7
Sorry, I am missing the context of this. The current discussion is whether doing an engine flush, then drain the oil/solvents out, and then add new oil still leaves a small amount of the solvents from the flush in the engine mixed with the new oil, which over the next 5,000 miles will harm the engine.
Are you saying a 2nd oil change a few miles later would be required to get the remaining solvents out?
That would depend on how much oil remains after the drain plug goes back in, and the sump gets filled with fresh oil. It would vary between vehicles and how long the oil was allowed to drain, how hot the oil was when it was drained, etc. Quick lube places don't spend much time allowing oil to drain. Bottom line if you want all the flush out, it might not be a bad idea to refill the sump with fresh cheap oil, a cheap filter, drive a few miles and dump that, and change the filter. OCD behavior, some people might say. Now you'll have residual cheap oil remaining, to mix in with the preferred oil.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Bill7
Sorry, I am missing the context of this. The current discussion is whether doing an engine flush, then drain the oil/solvents out, and then add new oil still leaves a small amount of the solvents from the flush in the engine mixed with the new oil, which over the next 5,000 miles will harm the engine.
Are you saying a 2nd oil change a few miles later would be required to get the remaining solvents out?
That would depend on how much oil remains after the drain plug goes back in, and the sump gets filled with fresh oil. It would vary between vehicles and how long the oil was allowed to drain, how hot the oil was when it was drained, etc. Quick lube places don't spend much time allowing oil to drain. Bottom line if you want all the flush out, it might not be a bad idea to refill the sump with fresh cheap oil, a cheap filter, drive a few miles and dump that, and change the filter. OCD behavior, some people might say. Now you'll have residual cheap oil remaining, to mix in with the preferred oil.
Just to add to the above comment. One does not need to recycle or waste the new flushed oil. It could be used in lawn/garden equipment, or used in another older vehicle, such as a grocery-getter, low use work/farm truck. My last full flush, which is Amsoil OE with 10% used oil, will be going into my daughters, 2004 Saturn with 200K miles. We only paid $1K and it has been a reliable car for 3 years getting her to school and back.
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