Engine blew up in the shop.

[Pablo]

You guys should just shrug

 

[fdcg27]

Having a teardown done by another shop to determine root cause would probably be enough to find your shop is not at fault, but the car’s owner is always going to have a feeling it was your shop. The boss probably knows he’ll have to eat this replacement as a goodwill gesture. If it were my car I’d probably go for the autopsy anyway so I don’t worry about what really happened. But everyone is different.

For what that would cost, the shop may as well just R&R with a used engine.
This would also have the benefit of making things right in the customer's eyes so probably preventing any negative reviews and maybe gaining a positive one.

 

[researcher]

I dont want to get too detailed just yet. Had a car come in for AC work. I fixed that with a new condenser and everyone was happy. We all know where the condenser is placed.


Car came back a couple days later running bad. Found some plastic vacuum lines under the upper intake had cracked and we're leaking vacuum. Other than the hissing from the vacuum leak the engine sounded ok.

Another guy did that repair. He is very thorough and meticulous.

Started the engine after that repair. Engine started and idled about 7 seconds. Made a terrible noise and shut off with a bang.


It threw a rod out the side of the oil pan which also cracked the block.

The mechanic that did that repair did NOT Rev it or anything like that. I was 6 ft away and was a witnes.

How would you explain that to your customer? Imo we did nothing wrong.

View attachment 347219

I have to repost my comment.. odd.. as they say stuff happens.. it was 200k on a Jag, lucky enough..

 

[Mainia]

After talking with the owner of the car. I would get his vib if he is a reasonable guy. yes he will be pissed. I would void the bill for what the owner had owing when it came in and offer him $3000 to walk out the door with a NDA and move on. As shop owner I would want the car too. I would then get the money for junk so the doesn't become "Christine" to the shop. This is a 1 in 10 year event. A 1 or 2 heavy job pays for it. Cost of doing business. No way would I fight it, unless he was a dhead. Especially if you have say a 6 bay+ shop. I would try at all cost to not put in in a new used motor. More chance to suck even more money with some form of electrical problem that was not there or some other nightmare. It is an old Jag not a 2014 Rav 4. This is a move on moment.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Reminds me of a shop teachers car, had a nice miss, did a comp test, one of the 4 cyl's was zero. No bore scope cameras in those days. That one piston was not moving and stuck at close to the top of the cylinder. No knocking sounds at all, he figured he'd just drive till it stopped. I don't remember how many months it lasted. The moral of the story is, metal fatigue happens, some times your lucky and some times your not. This posted issue is likely just that, and or something like inclusions with in the material that helps contribute to.
Such things can't always be blamed on something someone did wrong. It would be interesting to know what happened, and the causing parts should be seen by an expert on such things. Could still end up with a happy customer in the end.

 

[Ursatdx]

Any refund or moneys offered will be considered an admission of guilt.
It's a lesson I learned the hard way. (NDA?) Your attorney will earn more than the
claim is worth.
If you are not responsible for the issue you must stand firm on that decision.
If the complainant is unwilling to accept your decision you can then
ask for previous maintenance records. Search the web for other similar instances
of engine failures. If litigation is mentioned then, at least, seem willing to move in that
direction. Best of luck.

 

[clinebarger]

If it were my car, I would be both upset as well as suspect.

Now, my maintenance practices are probably much better than those of this owner.

And I am usually the first one to notice any abnormality in either function, or sound.

A slight ticking noise that usually proceeds a failure, would’ve been noticed.

But, put simply, if I brought you a running car that wasn’t making any noise and you told me that it spontaneously “blew up“ in your shop, I would blame you.

I would be asking just what the heck you did to that poor car to make it blow up.

I've seen valve springs break, Un-keeper the retainer, Drop the valve in the cylinder.....Piston disintegrates & throws a rod through the block at idle. No warning, No prior noises.

 

[JavierH19]

Imagine if the used motor also threw a rod at idle. If he was unlucky enough to have that happen who's to say it wouldn't happen again.

 

[TheOtherAndy]

After talking with the owner of the car. I would get his vib if he is a reasonable guy. yes he will be pissed. I would void the bill for what the owner had owing when it came in and offer him $3000 to walk out the door with a NDA and move on. As shop owner I would want the car too. I would then get the money for junk so the doesn't become "Christine" to the shop. This is a 1 in 10 year event. A 1 or 2 heavy job pays for it. Cost of doing business. No way would I fight it, unless he was a dhead. Especially if you have say a 6 bay+ shop. I would try at all cost to not put in in a new used motor. More chance to suck even more money with some form of electrical problem that was not there or some other nightmare. It is an old Jag not a 2014 Rav 4. This is a move on moment.

This seems the most sensible to me. Fixing AC on a 200k mile Jag makes me suspect this guy's going to be a ****, though. In my experience, the combo of luxury brand and low value generally means a bad time.

That said, this is probably going to be a bad time no matter what.

 

[TheOtherAndy]

Also, add 5 "bad time" bonus points if this is an X-Type.

 

[clinebarger]

Imagine if the used motor also threw a rod at idle. If he was unlucky enough to have that happen who's to say it wouldn't happen again.

I would just just buy the car like Mainia stated....Installing a engine would just marry you to the car, What's a 200,000 mile Jaguar worth?

 

[Pterostylis]

We all know how reliable AI is, but the AI suggested that some Jags have a duel oil and vacuum pump and that a vacuum failure can lead to oil pump issues. If true, not the shops fault.

Even if not true still doesn’t sound like the shops fault, besides, from what I’ve heard a Jag with 200,000 miles would be on borrowed time.

 

[meep]

How’d the rod pierce the block at idle? Man. I didn’t think it’d pack enough oomf tut-tutting in neutral. Maybe if it was in gear with a little load and iac compensation in play…?

I like reasonable talk and an oil sample for a back-pocket evidence, and just explaining it blew during idle. The 3k goodwill gesture if they balk is a good plan B.

 

[Dinoburner]

The hissing noise described earlier likely caused a lean burn which is known to do damage. If there is enough curiosity to pull the pan perhaps the cat will be brought back.

 

[Astro14]

I've seen valve springs break, Un-keeper the retainer, Drop the valve in the cylinder.....Piston disintegrates & throws a rod through the block at idle. No warning, No prior noises.

I’m not blaming Chris, or his shop, for this. And I’ve seen weird, spontaneous failures.

But I was being honest on what I would think if I were the customer.

 

[clinebarger]

How’d the rod pierce the block at idle? Man. I didn’t think it’d pack enough oomf tut-tutting in neutral. Maybe if it was in gear with a little load and iac compensation in play…?

I like reasonable talk and an oil sample for a back-pocket evidence, and just explaining it blew during idle. The 3k goodwill gesture if they balk is a good plan B.

Castings do not take impact very well.

 

[clinebarger]

I’m not blaming Chris, or his shop, for this. And I’ve seen weird, spontaneous failures.

But I was being honest on what I would think if I were the customer.

A natural human response to something like this, I try to not have any bias on subjects like this because I'm a shop owner......It's not right to get screwed over something that a shop/mechanic did to your vehicle nor is it's right for the shop/mechanic to be liable for a failure that wasn't caused due to their negligence.

I agree that engines rarely just fail all the sudden, Most meet their demise because lax maintenance, Low/No coolant, Low/No oil, And fueling issues.

Valve Spring breakage is more common than people think.....Far more common than powdered connecting rod failure in my opinion

 

[spasm3]

I'd read the ecmo for any codes, check for the last codes reset, do an oil analysis to check for huge amounts of thickener like lucas.

 

[KrisZ]

Cost of doing business.
I presume the tech drove it, at least into the bay, and if they didn’t hear anything abnormal, and me as a customer didn’t hear anything abnormal and the car was running when I dropped it off, you bet I would be blaming the shop.
A running engine doesn’t just throw a rod like this. Something happened that OP doesn’t know or wasn’t a witness to.

 

[mrsilv04]

Had a '99 Park Avenue with the 3800. Was in the shop for something else. Mechanic was out driving it to check the other repair, and that's when the intake manifold gasket decided to let go... which is a known issue that affected so many of these engines. Started blowing white smoke out the exhaust.

Shop provided all the labor at no charge, and sold the parts to me at what I was told was their cost.