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- Jan 6, 2005
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Engine blew up in the shop.
- Thread starter Chris142
- Start date
Shop cameras would be the first thing I’d hope for.
Which Jag engine?
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
Best to get an oil sample. If a spun bearing was the initiating event - the UOA may show soft metals …
Tossing a rod at idle is very fast …
Tossing a rod at idle is very fast …
As "I do Cars" says -Uncle Rodney is that you?
As well as they now have a religious motor.
Just a bad no win scenario. Similar situation with my '07 Sonata at 220k. Started vibrating odd around 3k rpm. Shop said they would need to tear it apart as it was something internal. 2 days later started puking oil but sadly still ran OK. Wasn't worth the $$/time to even change the motor. Rust was starting, it was 13 years old with 220k and a book value in good condition of about $600.
As well as they now have a religious motor.
Just a bad no win scenario. Similar situation with my '07 Sonata at 220k. Started vibrating odd around 3k rpm. Shop said they would need to tear it apart as it was something internal. 2 days later started puking oil but sadly still ran OK. Wasn't worth the $$/time to even change the motor. Rust was starting, it was 13 years old with 220k and a book value in good condition of about $600.
Video would be great.
I don't think you are liable at all. You may end up with an angry customer that may not return business to you but you are just a victim of bad timing.
Customer comes in for AC work. You do the AC work and the AC is fixed. Customer returns in 7 days because the engine is running rough. While diagnosing the problem the engine fails. Bad timing.
Take the plugs out and put a borescope into the cylinders. Check to see if the piston or pistons are damaged due to a dropped or bent valve. Have a UOA done to see if there are tons of wear metals in the oil. Inspect the filter for sparklies. Try and find some evidence of what caused it to fail.
Worst that could happen is the vehicle owner takes you to small claims court. In your defense you would just say that you fixed the AC, a completely unrelated system and 7 days later the customer returned because the engine was running rough. During diagnosis the engine failed. Show any evidence like borescope pictures or oil analysis and state that there is no way this is related to AC work.
Customer comes in for AC work. You do the AC work and the AC is fixed. Customer returns in 7 days because the engine is running rough. While diagnosing the problem the engine fails. Bad timing.
Take the plugs out and put a borescope into the cylinders. Check to see if the piston or pistons are damaged due to a dropped or bent valve. Have a UOA done to see if there are tons of wear metals in the oil. Inspect the filter for sparklies. Try and find some evidence of what caused it to fail.
Worst that could happen is the vehicle owner takes you to small claims court. In your defense you would just say that you fixed the AC, a completely unrelated system and 7 days later the customer returned because the engine was running rough. During diagnosis the engine failed. Show any evidence like borescope pictures or oil analysis and state that there is no way this is related to AC work.
We're more informed and understand that it's the type of thing that happens on older, higher mileage engines.
My lowest mileage engine is at 162,000. The other 3 are over 200k.
If one of them blew up like this I'd be bummed about having to change an engine but totally understanding that engines > 25 years old with high mileage are going to fail.
We have insurance I dont think using it for this is a wise choice. Many insurance companies wont insure in Ca and contacting them about this might run them off.
I think our insurance is for incase someone wrecks an expensive car during a test drive.
Not to replace an engine in a car with a $4000 value on a good day.
By law if the shop are considered at fault the car is to be repaired as to how it was before the problem.
That does not mean it gets a brand new engine in a crate. A used engine will be sourced and installed at no cost to the customer.
And its very unlikely to find another engine with 200k on it so the replacement will have less miles so the customer gets an upgrade.
Thats what I'm hearing. It's not worth the fight and negative publicity to try to get out of fixing it. Although in our case we did nothing wrong.
I will post more as I hear it.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2026
This is a classic “Kobayashi Maru” scenario. The shops gonna get the blame no matter what. One of those “it’s never knocked or made strange noises before I brought it in” type of deals. Unless the guy is a stand up, seems you have two choices: used engine on the shops dime, or send him out the door and wait for the small claims court and some bad reviews.
I kinda felt the same when this 4Runner hydrolocked itself in my shop solely because I had the key on. It filled all cylinders with fuel.
Fortunately the starter was too weak to bend anything and I recovered from that.
The rotating assy going AWOL is difficult to blame on a shop unless you were red-lining or EXTREMELY low on oil -- both of which Chris has addressed.
Fortunately the starter was too weak to bend anything and I recovered from that.
The rotating assy going AWOL is difficult to blame on a shop unless you were red-lining or EXTREMELY low on oil -- both of which Chris has addressed.
It won't be difficult to line up mechanical experts who can attest this wasn't the shop's fault, and there are eyewitnesses that it was not revved.
I imagine other Jag techs can attest this engine was lucky to get this far. It's like the heart of a 95 year old stopping -- not all too surprising.
But yeah, still a pain and I'd hate to have to be that adversarial with a customer. And surely the customer will tell everyone "XYZ blew up my engine!"
Bad luck yeah in lubes last oil in the always the problem.
Years ago in mexico had a customer that had a large gear box ran the whole plant was going to change out to fresh oil I was supplier at that time. The plant manger who liked me took me aside and said something like "that gearbox is on last legs DO NOT change it out YOU WILL be blamed when it pucks" sure nuff months later it died.
With old oil still in.
Years ago in mexico had a customer that had a large gear box ran the whole plant was going to change out to fresh oil I was supplier at that time. The plant manger who liked me took me aside and said something like "that gearbox is on last legs DO NOT change it out YOU WILL be blamed when it pucks" sure nuff months later it died.
With old oil still in.
A couple of thoughts: (a) I would at least pull the oil pan and look for sludge, especially on the pickup tube strainer. This could cause oil starvation without being low on oil; and (b) does this engine have powdered-metal rods? If so, that's the eventual outcome.
I’ve had additional problems crop up coincidentally on my own cars when they were in my garage being serviced. That’s got to be a “back of your mind worry” in the back of your mind! Two were memorable (and similar) and are stated here:
1) Strut replacement on 2005 Volvo V70R. Job completed, but could not start car to move it. Could not turn the key. The Ignition lock locked up. Ended up removing the lock cylinder (thank goodness for internet!), lubricating the relock mechanism, reinstalled and has not been a problem since. (Probably at least 6 years ago). By the way, glad we didn’t believe many of the web search results that said that ignition lock cylinder replacement was the only solution to this problem.
2) Front end work on a 2006 Volvo V70R. Job completed, but could not shift the car to move it. The shift interlock mechanism locked up. Ended up lubricating the cable near the ignition lock cylinder, put everything together and has not been a problem since. (Probably 4 years ago or so).
Completely unrelated problems to what was being fixed, but the similarity of the issues and being nearly identical cars made us think hard about what had happened. It was coincidental.
1) Strut replacement on 2005 Volvo V70R. Job completed, but could not start car to move it. Could not turn the key. The Ignition lock locked up. Ended up removing the lock cylinder (thank goodness for internet!), lubricating the relock mechanism, reinstalled and has not been a problem since. (Probably at least 6 years ago). By the way, glad we didn’t believe many of the web search results that said that ignition lock cylinder replacement was the only solution to this problem.
2) Front end work on a 2006 Volvo V70R. Job completed, but could not shift the car to move it. The shift interlock mechanism locked up. Ended up lubricating the cable near the ignition lock cylinder, put everything together and has not been a problem since. (Probably 4 years ago or so).
Completely unrelated problems to what was being fixed, but the similarity of the issues and being nearly identical cars made us think hard about what had happened. It was coincidental.
Gotta pull the engine to get the pan off.
Let the customer foot the bill for autopsy if they care. Plus would they believe any finding? IOW one could argue Chris' shop has a conflict of interest in such a situation.
Having a teardown done by another shop to determine root cause would probably be enough to find your shop is not at fault, but the car’s owner is always going to have a feeling it was your shop. The boss probably knows he’ll have to eat this replacement as a goodwill gesture. If it were my car I’d probably go for the autopsy anyway so I don’t worry about what really happened. But everyone is different.
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