Engine auto start/stop feature ending soon.

[SC Maintenance]

So when will DEF fluid no longer me required in my Ram Cummins and when can a dealer legally pull all that "regen" Cummins smothering EPA junk off my truck so my engine can do what it was designed to do?

And will I be able to move to a State of my choosing with out the worry of my Harley exhaust being sniffed so I can renew my tag?

States are free to implement whatever rules they like.

I take it you have never seen the Southpark Harley episode.

 

[K.Aoi]

States are free to implement whatever rules they like.

I take it you have never seen the Southpark Harley episode.

If a state has rules for that I'm not sure why they'd want to move to a state like that anyway,.

 

[Mainia]

Unless the manufactures get a strong "vibe" the other side will not come back and immediately re invoke CAFE (which they will) with it's outlandish over the top, almost unobtainable fleet mileage scheme that is on an upward sliding scale of un-attainability. The most I think you will get is an Start/Stop system with a optional long term off button, until CAFE comes back.

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

States are free to implement whatever rules they like.

I take it you have never seen the Southpark Harley episode.

Yes and South Carolina did away with State Car inspection in the late 80's if I recall. That was before exhaust sniffing but what a joke those days were. People with old cars that had problems simply had a small gas station buddy in town that was known to hand out inspection stickers like candy, as long as you handed the guy a $20 bill you got a sticker! One guy I remember had a stack of stickers in one hand and a stack of $20's in the other and cars lined up! He did not even look at your car back then.

My hope is North Carolina would do away with car and motorcycle inspections after Trump eases the EPA stronghold.

 

[rstsco]

If a state has rules for that I'm not sure why they'd want to move to a state like that anyway, sounds like they should go to Texas instead.

Not all areas of Texas are like the Wild West. There are 18 counties which still require emission testing before you can renew your registration, including where we live just north of Austin . Austin likes to pretend they're a sister city to Portland. I need to bite my tongue now.

 

[K.Aoi]

Not all areas of Texas are like the Wild West. There are 18 counties which still require emission testing before you can renew your registration, including where we live just north of Austin . Austin likes to pretend they're a sister city to Portland. I need to bite my tongue now.

Texas just eliminated safety inspections.

Yes and South Carolina did away with State Car inspection in the late 80's if I recall. That was before exhaust sniffing but what a joke those days were. People with old cars that had problems simply had a small gas station buddy in town that was known to hand out inspection sticker like candy, as long as you handed the guy a $20 you got a sticker!

My hope is North Carolina would do away with car and motorcycle inspections after Trump eases the EPA stronghold.

Yeah so instead of fixing the problem by actually implementing a system to make shops who are abusing the system accountable and be penalized like a sane place would, they just got rid of it entirely (like Texas just did) It's completely baffling to me that somehow eliminating all safety inspections for cars is supposed to make people safer. I see the POS that people in a state that ostensibly has an inspection system (NC) manage to get on the road, the complete pieces of junk that you see on the road in SC and states like it are unbelievable to me. Brakes? Who needs those? Not that minivan full of kids you're about to hit and kill because you're too cheap to get your car fixed and the state doesn't MAKE you fix it.

Sorry not sorry, but inconsiderate people should not have carte blanche to put everyone else on the road in danger because they are unwilling to fix the piece of junk they are driving before it kills someone. ALL States should have mandatory inspections with actual teeth, and they should be tracked and held accountable, and audited. Small gas station shop issues bunch of fraudulent inspection stickers? Fine the pants off of them. These are people's lives, you don't screw around here. And it makes me quite annoyed that people exist that think that ensuring basic functions of cars like BRAKES and LIGHTS are working properly before putting them on roads with other people is somehow infringing on their rights. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

 

[rstsco]

Texas just eliminated safety inspections.

But not emissions' testing in those 18 counties (technically only 17 right now, but another joins the reindeer games later this year).

The test isn't stand-alone, either. They hook up their machines to your vehicle, then connect to the state's system, which monitors Pass/Fail results. No longer can you go to "the station down the street" and slip them a twenty. It is illegal to register a vehicle outside of the county which you reside.

 

[K.Aoi]

But not emissions' testing in those 18 counties (technically only 17 right now, but another joins the reindeer games later this year).

The test isn't stand-alone, either. They hook up their machines to your vehicle, then connect to the state's system, which monitors Pass/Fail results. No longer can you go to "the station down the street" and slip them a twenty. It is illegal to register a vehicle outside of the county which you reside.

Good system, traceability, accountability and auditability while also preventing security workarounds are all good things. If only they had actually implemented a similar system with safety inspections instead of just throwing up their hands and saying "it doesn't work shops are just giving out stickers" and getting rid of it. Maybe when people spend more time trying to figure out how to work around a system that is in place, the system probably exists specifically because of people like them.

 

[joekingcorvette]

I never like that feature and do not own a vehicle with it. My son has a Jeep and he never disabled it but I found it annoying.

 

[PontiacHO]

It is nearly impossible to make diesel engines that don't create crazy high NOX emissions without SCR/DEF and also burn hot enough to keep particulate emissions low enough to not need a DPF. Of those systems, the DPF (and EGR) are by far the most problematice ones. SCR/DEF is not really a problem. NOX is pretty bad stuff, as anyone who ever set foot in LA in the 70s can tell you (it's one of the primary contributors of smog)

Complaining about the existence of limp mode because someone was lazy and didn't fill up the DEF is absurd, it lasts quite a long time, you have more than a couple of tanks of fuel between DEF fill ups. That's like blaming the tires because someone blew out a tire because they didn't ever bother to put air in it when it was low.

Thanks for your diatribe and scolding. I’m speaking in regards to transportation and agriculture industries. These folks are trying there best to transport products as quickly and efficiently as possible without adding yet another obstacle.

 

[K.Aoi]

That’s for your diatribe and scolding. I’m speaking in regards to transportation and agriculture industries. These folks are trying there best to transport products as quickly and efficiently as possible without adding yet another obstacle.

In the same way those industries need to fill their equipment with diesel fuel, oil, replace tires, etc- they need to fill it with DEF, it's not really very difficult. Both of those industries are massive and are some of the biggest contributors of emissions- since they collectively operate most of the large diesel engines in the world. Complaining about DEF when even more massive barriers to their success is squarely on the shoulders of the manufacturers, who do not want farmers/etc to be able to repair their own equipment. Agriculture in general already gets a pretty big pass on a lot of that stuff in general, and a huge amount of agricultural equipment out there is ancient, long before engine electronics were a twinkle in any eyes.

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

I'm a simple man that wants the least amount of Government regulation and oversight in my life, in my State in my Country and in my car, truck and motorcycle and my now ethanol mandated gas tank.

Many do and don't feel as I and that is why we vote I guess as it takes all kinds.

No I'm not a fan of any kind of "inspection" some folks have a need for regulation I guess to perhaps feel "safe" and nothing wrong with that but as of now I live in a State with no auto inspections and I kinda like that. To each his own...

 

[The_Jeff]

Unless the manufactures get a strong "vibe" the other side will not come back and immediately re invoke CAFE (which they will) with it's outlandish over the top, almost unobtainable fleet mileage scheme that is on an upward sliding scale of attainability. The most I think you will get is an Start/Stop system with a optional long term off button, until CAFE comes back.

If there's a "second battery" I could see that getting left out and coded out. But the space for it will remain in the blueprints.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yeah so instead of fixing the problem by actually implementing a system to make shops who are abusing the system accountable and be penalized like a sane place would, they just got rid of it entirely

Feel free to move. Don’t let the door hit your but on the way out.

 

[JustN89]

Not even remotely. For example BMW Spartanburg produces 450K cars a year. They employ 12,000 people. That’s 37.5 cars per person. If you do that math assuming each person makes $100,000 a year that’s $2667 per car.

Car production is automated.

The mistake is thinking that the only labor to account for is production and that their salary is the only expense that they account for to the business. While there's no single number, a generally accepted approximation is that an employee costs the business 1.3x their annual salary. So $100,000 is $130,000 (again, approximated). Also, the price of the car absorbs the costs of the entire BMW operation, not just the plant that makes it. Looking at Ford's 10-K, while they don't break out labor costs, their cost of goods sold sits at $174 billion, with another $10.8 billion in "selling, administrative, and other expenses". That $10.8 billion would cover corporate salaries, sales incentive programs for dealerships, etc. All this to say, labor is nearly guaranteed to be the second most expensive operational component for car manufacturers.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The mistake is thinking that the only labor to account for is production and that their salary is the only expense that they account for to the business. While there's no single number, a generally accepted approximation is that an employee costs the business 1.3x their annual salary. So $100,000 is $130,000 (again, approximated). Also, the price of the car absorbs the costs of the entire BMW operation, not just the plant that makes it. Looking at Ford's 10-K, while they don't break out labor costs, their cost of goods sold sits at $174 billion, with another $10.8 billion in "selling, administrative, and other expenses". That $10.8 billion would cover corporate salaries, sales incentive programs for dealerships, etc. All this to say, labor is nearly guaranteed to be the second most expensive operational component for car manufacturers.

I used $100K as a fully burdened cost. Most production workers make much less than $100K.

If you want to discuss UAW costs that is an entirely different issue.

You would have selling and marketing costs with or without start/stop. It’s is not a drop in the ocean as you say. It’s a real cost that adds no value and most people disable anyway.

I spent a lifetime automating factories. Labor is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago.

 

[K.Aoi]

Feel free to move. Don’t let the door hit your but on the way out.

I don't live in Texas, never will, and don't even want to consider setting foot in the state, so no worries there.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yes and South Carolina did away with State Car inspection in the late 80's if I recall. That was before exhaust sniffing but what a joke those days were. People with old cars that had problems simply had a small gas station buddy in town that was known to hand out inspection stickers like candy, as long as you handed the guy a $20 bill you got a sticker! One guy I remember had a stack of stickers in one hand and a stack of $20's in the other and cars lined up! He did not even look at your car back then.

My hope is North Carolina would do away with car and motorcycle inspections after Trump eases the EPA stronghold.

Ya. I remember the days when Asheville NC had air pollution problems which were beginning to reach LA levels. I'm sure the residents my age miss those "good old days".

 

[PontiacHO]

No, I don't think I will. In the same way those industries need to fill their equipment with diesel fuel, oil, replace tires, etc- they need to fill it with DEF, it's not really very difficult. Both of those industries are massive and are some of the biggest contributors of emissions- since they collectively operate most of the large diesel engines in the world. Complaining about DEF when even more massive barriers to their success is squarely on the shoulders of the manufacturers, who do not want farmers/etc to be able to repair their own equipment. Agriculture in general already gets a pretty big pass on a lot of that stuff in general, and a huge amount of agricultural equipment out there is ancient, long before engine electronics were a twinkle in any eyes.

If you actually knew what it takes to operate within these industries I doubt you would have even commented.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Mark Twain

 

[loneryder]

None of my vehicles have start/stop. I wouldn't buy one it it had. Seems as annoying as my start/stop which is nocturnal and involves the bathroom. Fortunately there is medicine for that.

I made sure the car had the turn off switch before I bought it.