Dont use heavier then rec'd oil in FORD VCT cars

[KDS]

Cars with the VCT system from Ford use oil pressure to change the cams position, these can get gunked up by to thick oils, causing a $400+ repair job. That's the cost on a Escort, a Mustang or F-Series will be over double that. Even running 5w30 on some 5w20 rec'd engines have issues.

Just an FYI to any Ford owners that have a VCT system. Many of the VCT Zetec guys have known this for years.

 

[demarpaint]

There is a whole thread on this board about using 5W30 instead of 5W20 in newer cars, and a link to a former Ford engineer (I think that's what he is/was) that said 5W20 oil was NG, and all about CAFE. I think his comments might be a few years old, but I'm not sure.

I guess if someone decided to use 5W30 in one of the Ford cars you mentioned above they'd have some major warranty issues if the car was still under warranty. It's still best to use what the mfg suggests I guess.

Thanks for posting.

 

[KDS]

This only applies to the newer cars with the Variable Camshaft Timing. Ford DID change to 5w-20 for emissions and fuel, but this is more about the actual passages in the engines heads that control the VCT.

If you don't have a VCT then heavier can be just fine to run 5w-30.

As far as I know just the new 05+GT, F-Series, and some zetecs have it. Not sure about any v6 cars or the gt500.

If you have removed the VCT as many cam'd new GT's do then you can run the 5w-30 just fine.

 

[demarpaint]

I think almost all of the Ford line up now calls for 5W20, with possibly a few exceptions. My point was a lot of people feel that the 5W30 is better and go against the mfg suggestions, and could get burnt in cases like this.

 

[KDS]

Exactly why I posted up.

Before 2001 all Fords cars were calling for 5w30, but after the change to 20 the amount of VCT failures dropped, which is how we first made the connection. People still running 30 had problems, no one with 20 did.

 

[bepperb]

I doubt you'd see anything in the real world, as a 5w-30 and 5w-20 are so similar in viscosity, and obviously if you never got up to full temp on the 5w-20 you would be using thicker oil than someone who did a lot of hwy driving on 5w-30.

Also, keep in mind these exact same engines are specd to use 5w-30 in other parts of the world where 5w-20 is not widely available.

But I bet there are F-150 drivers who use a 10w-40 or 15w-40 HDEO that have problems... then warranty issues. Or 20w-50 in the GT.

This has been discussed before.

 

[KDS]

I am talking real wold. No one is talking theory here. The 30 is been connected to higher VCT failure rate. its doesn't make it die on first use, but its been noted that 30 makes it die faster.

When I say 30 vs 20 I'm talking on the Zetec, I don't know what the new 4.6 is recommended.

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: KDS
Cars with the VCT system from Ford use oil pressure to change the cams position, these can get gunked up by to thick oils, causing a $400+ repair job. That's the cost on a Escort, a Mustang or F-Series will be over double that. Even running 5w30 on some 5w20 rec'd engines have issues.

Just an FYI to any Ford owners that have a VCT system. Many of the VCT Zetec guys have known this for years.


That doesnt make much sense. Is Ford's implementation of cam phasing really that [censored]? The Mazda-sourced Duratec I4 engines should be using Mazda's cam phasing, which gets run on all kinds of oils overseas internationally, 5w20 not being one of them. Why aren't there massive failures on those engines? If there really is truth to what you're saying, then I just think Ford's implementation is [censored].

 

[Zaedock]

So what happens to Ford VCT engines in arctic conditions? What do you think happens to 5W20 at -20*F?

I'd like to see some documentation before I believe that the system is that dependent on viscosity. I'm sure Ford would have designed pressure relief at X PSI to correctly actuate the cams under various temperature conditions.

 

[bdcardinal]

the Ford GT and Shelby GT500 spec XO-5W50-QGT full synthetic and do NOT have VCT. the 4.0L v6 specs 5w30, and does not have VCT. the 05+ Mustang GT, and 04+ new body style F150s, along with equipped super dutys and e-series have the VCT that is prone to failure with the use of thicker oils, those all spec 5W20.

 

[XS650]

Do they also have a documented higher failure rate for cold climates? The engine can't read label on the oil can, all it knows is the actual viscosity of the oil in the engine. They must all fail in Northern Minnesota in the Winter.

Combine that with the fact the xW-20 generally falls toward the thick end of the 30 spectrum and a good share of xs-30 falls towards the lower 1/2 of the 30 spectrum. This smells funny.

It only takes a 10F to 15F drop to make a 20 weight as viscous as a 30 weight.

More likely, Ford is having a high failure rate and using every weasel word way they can to get out of warranty work.

I do believe you should use an oil that the manufacturer specs, and this kind of stuff is the main reason I do.

 

[sparkplug]

It's not the oil its the manufacturer...

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Do they also have a documented higher failure rate for cold climates? The engine can't read label on the oil can, all it knows is the actual viscosity of the oil in the engine. They must all fail in Northern Minnesota in the Winter.

Combine that with the fact the xW-20 generally falls toward the thick end of the 30 spectrum and a good share of xs-30 falls towards the lower 1/2 of the 30 spectrum. This smells funny.

It only takes a 10F to 15F drop to make a 20 weight as viscous as a 30 weight.

More likely, Ford is having a high failure rate and using every weasel word way they can to get out of warranty work.

I do believe you should use an oil that the manufacturer specs, and this kind of stuff is the main reason I do.

 

[demarpaint]

It could very well be a design defect. If that's the case and Ford was looking for a way out, and said person was using 5W30 in an engine spec'd for 5W20 he'd be SOL.

 

[Steve S]

That is why it is easier to use the recommended oil just in case!!!

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: KDS
Cars with the VCT system from Ford use oil pressure to change the cams position, these can get gunked up by to thick oils, causing a $400+ repair job. That's the cost on a Escort, a Mustang or F-Series will be over double that. Even running 5w30 on some 5w20 rec'd engines have issues.

Just an FYI to any Ford owners that have a VCT system. Many of the VCT Zetec guys have known this for years.



Where is your proof that Ford engines are failing in mass the way you say.First I have heard of it.
If there has been an oil issue I bet it's because of sludge, not 30 wt. oil.

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It could very well be a design defect. If that's the case and Ford was looking for a way out, and said person was using 5W30 in an engine spec'd for 5W20 he'd be SOL.


If I got the shaft like that for this kind of warranty work, Ford would be SOL on my future purchases. With manoevers like that, it's no wonder they're dying a slow painful death. It's the Pinto all over again.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm with you, and if I got the shaft I would put up one helllll of a fight. Of the former Big Three, Ford is in the best shape right now. Sadly any mfg that could weasle out of a warranty issue might just do it. The point I was making was if a mfg says use 5W20, oil use it, no point in giving them a way out. If a person has reason to believe they know better and decide to use something else, then they take full responsibility if something goes wrong.

 

[PT1]

Well Ford doesn't make a VCT...the suppliers do...and they will tell you to follow the manufacturers viscosity recommendations 100%. Any change in viscosity throws the VCT calibration off. BTW, this goes for ALL VVT/VCT engines.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Well Ford doesn't make a VCT...the suppliers do...and they will tell you to follow the manufacturers viscosity recommendations 100%. Any change in viscosity throws the VCT calibration off.


About a 15F change in oil temperature changes oil one full SAE grade in viscosity.

Are you saying a 15 degree change in oil temperature will throw the VCT calibration off?

Are you aware that the oil temperature in the vast majority of cars with VCT isn't controlled except secondarily by coolant temperature?