I am much more impressed with cars that have high mileage and are well maintained or with someone who takes a used car and puts a little time and effort to work on it and upgrade the interior with new seats , carpet then someone who goes and buys a new car.
Does it pay to keep older cars?
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I tend to hold on to cars for at least 8 years or so; the only car I bought new was the 3 Series as it was a limited edition of less than 300 and I was able to order it without a hole in the roof. I've had the 3er for 21 years, the Wrangler for 15, and the X3 for 12. When I traded my 2007 MS3 last year it had 158,000 miles on it and was still running great- I was just one and done with FWD and I wanted a reasonably quick RWD DD/track toy. I'm thinking I'll hold on to the 2er for at least another 7-8 years.
Sometimes I wish I could bring myself to sell all my cars/hotrod/projects, and just lease what a local dealer is offering. New Hellcat 707HP Dodge Challenger for $614 per month. Which wouldn't seem like much considering how much fun it would be to drive it like you stole it for 3 years, put new tires on, and go get another one!
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Traction
Sometimes I wish I could bring myself to sell all my cars/hotrod/projects, and just lease what a local dealer is offering. New Hellcat 707HP Dodge Challenger for $614 per month. Which wouldn't seem like much considering how much fun it would be to drive it like you stole it for 3 years, put new tires on, and go get another one!
They are incredible. I've had some seat time in one, the pull is intoxicating and it is really just a superbly well put together package. I've heard rumours of a HellCat Grand Cherokee. You can make a wild guess what my next ride is
Sometimes I wish I could bring myself to sell all my cars/hotrod/projects, and just lease what a local dealer is offering. New Hellcat 707HP Dodge Challenger for $614 per month. Which wouldn't seem like much considering how much fun it would be to drive it like you stole it for 3 years, put new tires on, and go get another one!
They are incredible. I've had some seat time in one, the pull is intoxicating and it is really just a superbly well put together package. I've heard rumours of a HellCat Grand Cherokee. You can make a wild guess what my next ride is
Another thing I might add ford46guy, is that I do own a new car too, a '15 Cruze. I don't regret buying the thing, but I doubt I'll ever buy another new one again. Its a nice little car, but I've put 7000 miles on the Roadmaster in almost a year of ownership, and only 1800 on the Cruze in the last year. I'll probably just keep it until its paid off, then keep it until something causes it to die. I needed a car when I bought the Cruze, and the financing and interest rates worked out to where I could afford it, and I'm thankful for that, but I don't know, I just wouldn't do it again. There's something to be said for right out owning a car, even if its a beater.
Are you still trying to sell the Cruze?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Traction
Sometimes I wish I could bring myself to sell all my cars/hotrod/projects, and just lease what a local dealer is offering. New Hellcat 707HP Dodge Challenger for $614 per month. Which wouldn't seem like much considering how much fun it would be to drive it like you stole it for 3 years, put new tires on, and go get another one!
They are incredible. I've had some seat time in one, the pull is intoxicating and it is really just a superbly well put together package. I've heard rumours of a HellCat Grand Cherokee. You can make a wild guess what my next ride is
How much down payment is needed for this lease ?
Originally Posted By: Traction
Sometimes I wish I could bring myself to sell all my cars/hotrod/projects, and just lease what a local dealer is offering. New Hellcat 707HP Dodge Challenger for $614 per month. Which wouldn't seem like much considering how much fun it would be to drive it like you stole it for 3 years, put new tires on, and go get another one!
They are incredible. I've had some seat time in one, the pull is intoxicating and it is really just a superbly well put together package. I've heard rumours of a HellCat Grand Cherokee. You can make a wild guess what my next ride is
How much down payment is needed for this lease ?
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Traction said:Sometimes I wish I could bring myself to sell all my cars/hotrod/projects, and just lease what a local dealer is offering. New Hellcat 707HP Dodge Challenger for $614 per month. Which wouldn't seem like much considering how much fun it would be to drive it like you stole it for 3 years, put new tires on, and go get another one!
They are incredible. I've had some seat time in one, the pull is intoxicating and it is really just a superbly well put together package. I've heard rumours of a HellCat Grand Cherokee. You can make a wild guess what my next ride is
How much down payment is needed for this lease ?
I think it was just the usual stuff, fees, tax, title, etc. Which adds up. After that, think of the smiles per mile for $20 a day! I'd just have to eat a couple hot dogs, instead of a pizza is all. 707 horse power for $614!
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Not actively. I had no real interest so I haven't been pushing it.
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Back in the 90s people were telling my dad to sell off what is currently my Ford Capri as in those times they were worth very little.
Now 20 years on the people at my local Ford dealer the guys who still work there say how glad they are that the car is still in the family, and that they are glad my dad din't follow their advice to sell it.
The price for these cars has now risen 400% in 3 years.
If you really like a car, ofcourse it's worth keeping it going
If you have tools and knowledge it's infinitely cheaper and more rewarding to daily an older car.
In the last 12 months the Scirocco lost its reverse lights, a new switch from eBay for £14 and 10 minutes fixed that problem, and just today in three hours and for £65 a new steering rack & bushes went in. Aligned it with my dunlop gauges.
For a total of £80 and a quarter of a day I've solved every issue I've had with car - if you had a lease with a warranty you'd lose more time than I lost, if your lease did not have a warranty you'd pay more for the job on a newer vehicle than I paid.
Plus what previous comments have mentioned about not paying a debt every month frees up a lot of cash, and you actually own something rather than giving back, being out of pocket and having no car.
The only positive part of a lease is avoiding the depreciation on a brand new vehicle, but depending on what it is and how much you pay, you could be covering the depreciation to allow them to sell at auction for profit after your lease ends.
Back in the 90s people were telling my dad to sell off what is currently my Ford Capri as in those times they were worth very little.
Now 20 years on the people at my local Ford dealer the guys who still work there say how glad they are that the car is still in the family, and that they are glad my dad din't follow their advice to sell it.
The price for these cars has now risen 400% in 3 years.
If you really like a car, ofcourse it's worth keeping it going
If you have tools and knowledge it's infinitely cheaper and more rewarding to daily an older car.
In the last 12 months the Scirocco lost its reverse lights, a new switch from eBay for £14 and 10 minutes fixed that problem, and just today in three hours and for £65 a new steering rack & bushes went in. Aligned it with my dunlop gauges.
For a total of £80 and a quarter of a day I've solved every issue I've had with car - if you had a lease with a warranty you'd lose more time than I lost, if your lease did not have a warranty you'd pay more for the job on a newer vehicle than I paid.
Plus what previous comments have mentioned about not paying a debt every month frees up a lot of cash, and you actually own something rather than giving back, being out of pocket and having no car.
The only positive part of a lease is avoiding the depreciation on a brand new vehicle, but depending on what it is and how much you pay, you could be covering the depreciation to allow them to sell at auction for profit after your lease ends.
Originally Posted By: carviewsonic
I see the shiny new trucks some of my co-workers drive to work, and I think maybe I shouldn't be so cheap and get my own shiny new truck. But when I cruise the dealer lots and look at the window stickers, I get major sticker shock, and walk back to my old car (I'm into Buicks now) trembling, shaking my head and muttering. I pat the old Buick on the dash and say "a few more years".
Yes, this! I was looking at new trucks a bit ago and had major sticker shock. $50,000 for a new truck? No, I don't think so. The Trailblazer and the Mustang are both still in very nice shape with low miles. If I had to bet, I would say the Mustang is going to outlive the Trailblazer.
I see the shiny new trucks some of my co-workers drive to work, and I think maybe I shouldn't be so cheap and get my own shiny new truck. But when I cruise the dealer lots and look at the window stickers, I get major sticker shock, and walk back to my old car (I'm into Buicks now) trembling, shaking my head and muttering. I pat the old Buick on the dash and say "a few more years".
Yes, this! I was looking at new trucks a bit ago and had major sticker shock. $50,000 for a new truck? No, I don't think so. The Trailblazer and the Mustang are both still in very nice shape with low miles. If I had to bet, I would say the Mustang is going to outlive the Trailblazer.
For me, when repairs get to $1200/yr, (for major parts replacement...excl. maintenance and tires), and expected for consecutive years, my search gets serious and imminent as financing for a newer car would cost little more.
But the value of an older car diminishes in other terms, frequency of repairs and unreliability that may be too costly an inconvenience.
But then there's satisfaction with performance, functions and features, (e.g. a manual transmission no longer available in a newer Camry, though other makes/models still have them) and preferred style and design may exceed the dollar value (still have not warmed to big-mouth bass front ends)...something to consider.
I still like the Camry, especially now that it's paid off, but I budget $400/yr for "freshening" beyond $300/yr for maintenance-repairs....improving functions or appearance that keep the car "fresh" to me, (tint, alloy rims, new paint...one year the hood, another year the roof, DVD player/bluetooth/rear-view camera) delaying if not eliminating the inevitable "lust for the new" for a few more years.
And as I typically buy 4 to 6-year old cars I'm looking at the new cars on the road now and have my eye on two...Volkswagen Sportwagon/Audi Allroad, with sticks of course...for when I have to replace the Camry.
But the value of an older car diminishes in other terms, frequency of repairs and unreliability that may be too costly an inconvenience.
But then there's satisfaction with performance, functions and features, (e.g. a manual transmission no longer available in a newer Camry, though other makes/models still have them) and preferred style and design may exceed the dollar value (still have not warmed to big-mouth bass front ends)...something to consider.
I still like the Camry, especially now that it's paid off, but I budget $400/yr for "freshening" beyond $300/yr for maintenance-repairs....improving functions or appearance that keep the car "fresh" to me, (tint, alloy rims, new paint...one year the hood, another year the roof, DVD player/bluetooth/rear-view camera) delaying if not eliminating the inevitable "lust for the new" for a few more years.
And as I typically buy 4 to 6-year old cars I'm looking at the new cars on the road now and have my eye on two...Volkswagen Sportwagon/Audi Allroad, with sticks of course...for when I have to replace the Camry.
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ford46guy. You have pretty much cherry picked a good selection of old Fords. The running gear in my '94 Ranger leaks from practically every orifice it seems. I am dealing with left frame rail rot. Its my only 4wd, yet this is its 3rd winter laid up. A long time member of our on line chat retired his '85 535i with 586 K and 25 yrs of ownership. It had a valve job about 400 K and the usual replaceables were replaced. The car Racked up 120 miles a day commuting into NYC.
The Rat seduced me. it looked so forlorn turning into mulch under that maple tree. the 4.0 V 6 starts easily and has plenty of giddy up. Lets put it this way, Ford is into selling cars not maintaining them. Always has been. My brother worked at a Ford dlr years ago and said the parts stock was for 3-5 yr old Fords. Anything else , it was touch and go. this was 50 yrs ago. 10 yrs is a standard in electronic hardware as well.
The Rat seduced me. it looked so forlorn turning into mulch under that maple tree. the 4.0 V 6 starts easily and has plenty of giddy up. Lets put it this way, Ford is into selling cars not maintaining them. Always has been. My brother worked at a Ford dlr years ago and said the parts stock was for 3-5 yr old Fords. Anything else , it was touch and go. this was 50 yrs ago. 10 yrs is a standard in electronic hardware as well.
Great posts. My tendency is to keep a car. Period.
I was most influenced by a book I read 30 years ago called "Why Trade It In" which set forth a schedule for what I call "pre-emptive maintenance". The ONION, my 05 ION, purchased new had new plugs, boots, hoses [including heater and AC],belts etc done at the 10 year mark. Transmission fluid @ 50,000 miles. I have used time rather than mileage because it, plus the heat and dust here in AZ do such damage to rubber.
The car has 66,000 miles on it and I plan to keep it for many years to come. I've owned my 63 Valiant Signet for 36 years now, so the ONION won't be leaving any time soon.
A second criteria I have used for buying a car is one based on a common platform built across many years and similar cars from a company so that parts and service will be easily available for an extended length of time.
It's okay to laugh at the car I chose, as it wouldn't be one for many others to buy and hold. But the plastic panels, removable on all four corners like a Studebaker Lark or Checker, millions of Ecotecs built, and GM 4 speed automatic are all pretty indestructible.
It's also been a reliable car, minus the stupid ignition switch.
I chose my first new car the same way: 99 Base Cavalier 2 door 2.2 OHV, basic platform built for many years, GM 4 speed auto, tremendous parts availability and service simplicity.Meant for driving long term at low cost.
And I would still have it had it not been for a guy rear ending me at a stop light.
The idea of the E-Z lease may work for some, but I hate debt and car payments. Depreciation is rarely a factor because I just don't care that my car is not "worth" spending money on it to make repairs. It's worth whatever money it would take to buy a newer replacement. But I keep that cash in my pocket. I can't save money by spending it.
I was most influenced by a book I read 30 years ago called "Why Trade It In" which set forth a schedule for what I call "pre-emptive maintenance". The ONION, my 05 ION, purchased new had new plugs, boots, hoses [including heater and AC],belts etc done at the 10 year mark. Transmission fluid @ 50,000 miles. I have used time rather than mileage because it, plus the heat and dust here in AZ do such damage to rubber.
The car has 66,000 miles on it and I plan to keep it for many years to come. I've owned my 63 Valiant Signet for 36 years now, so the ONION won't be leaving any time soon.
A second criteria I have used for buying a car is one based on a common platform built across many years and similar cars from a company so that parts and service will be easily available for an extended length of time.
It's okay to laugh at the car I chose, as it wouldn't be one for many others to buy and hold. But the plastic panels, removable on all four corners like a Studebaker Lark or Checker, millions of Ecotecs built, and GM 4 speed automatic are all pretty indestructible.
It's also been a reliable car, minus the stupid ignition switch.
I chose my first new car the same way: 99 Base Cavalier 2 door 2.2 OHV, basic platform built for many years, GM 4 speed auto, tremendous parts availability and service simplicity.Meant for driving long term at low cost.
And I would still have it had it not been for a guy rear ending me at a stop light.
The idea of the E-Z lease may work for some, but I hate debt and car payments. Depreciation is rarely a factor because I just don't care that my car is not "worth" spending money on it to make repairs. It's worth whatever money it would take to buy a newer replacement. But I keep that cash in my pocket. I can't save money by spending it.
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It paid me to keep an older car.
I bought a 5 year old Mercedes 190e for approx. half it's new cost and kept it for 21 years.
Almost nothing went wrong in that time so it was very cheap to run. Although it was worth very little in the end, annual depreciation was low at £410/year. I would have kept it longer but it needed more money spending on it than it was worth and rust was getting harder to keep at bay.
I've replaced it with another 5 year old Mercedes, this time at only 1/3 of it's new cost but something tells me the complexity of modern cars will make the feat impossible to repeat not to mention I will be well into my 80's if do.
I bought a 5 year old Mercedes 190e for approx. half it's new cost and kept it for 21 years.
Almost nothing went wrong in that time so it was very cheap to run. Although it was worth very little in the end, annual depreciation was low at £410/year. I would have kept it longer but it needed more money spending on it than it was worth and rust was getting harder to keep at bay.
I've replaced it with another 5 year old Mercedes, this time at only 1/3 of it's new cost but something tells me the complexity of modern cars will make the feat impossible to repeat not to mention I will be well into my 80's if do.
As you can see from my signature, most of my vehicles are older and I tend to keep vehicles for a long time. My 70 Monte I've had for almost 30 years, the 98 chevy K1500 I bought new so almost 19 years there. 98 K3500 almost 10 years. Both 92 cavaliers for almost 11 years and I bought the 14 Mustang almost four years ago.
I prefer fixing mine to trading in or getting new all of the time. Don't get me wrong, I love vehicles and would love to have new stuff but financially I don't think it's smart to do and I don't want to have payments all of the time.
I do most of my own maintenance and repairs so it makes it easier to keep the older stuff on the road but I do admit to now liking to work on vehicles as much as I used to.
Wayne
I prefer fixing mine to trading in or getting new all of the time. Don't get me wrong, I love vehicles and would love to have new stuff but financially I don't think it's smart to do and I don't want to have payments all of the time.
I do most of my own maintenance and repairs so it makes it easier to keep the older stuff on the road but I do admit to now liking to work on vehicles as much as I used to.
Wayne
Originally Posted By: andyd
ford46guy. You have pretty much cherry picked a good selection of old Fords..
. 4.0 V 6 starts easily and has plenty of giddy up. Lets put it this way, Ford is into selling cars not maintaining them. Always has been. My brother worked at a Ford dlr years ago and said the parts stock was for 3-5 yr old Fords. Anything else , it was touch and go. this was 50 yrs ago. 10 yrs is a standard in electronic hardware as well.
Yeah, I love the 4.0 OHV. I was advised to buy it by a former ford tech turned salesman. He said you can fix anything on it in your garage in a few hours, and it will run forever. Engine was built with serviceability in mind.
I also have 4.10 gears, has some really nice pickup. I tried some newer explorers and the power is still respectable.
All the fords are extremely reliable, most repairs are wear and tear things.
ford46guy. You have pretty much cherry picked a good selection of old Fords..
. 4.0 V 6 starts easily and has plenty of giddy up. Lets put it this way, Ford is into selling cars not maintaining them. Always has been. My brother worked at a Ford dlr years ago and said the parts stock was for 3-5 yr old Fords. Anything else , it was touch and go. this was 50 yrs ago. 10 yrs is a standard in electronic hardware as well.
Yeah, I love the 4.0 OHV. I was advised to buy it by a former ford tech turned salesman. He said you can fix anything on it in your garage in a few hours, and it will run forever. Engine was built with serviceability in mind.
I also have 4.10 gears, has some really nice pickup. I tried some newer explorers and the power is still respectable.
All the fords are extremely reliable, most repairs are wear and tear things.
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I've always run old, POS cars, (company cars don't count) apart from when I took over a fairly new Renault5 when my mother stopped driving. A couple of them gave early trouble that I couldn't fix and were abandoned (probably vacuum leaks, I now think), at negligible cost.
On a couple, a hostile ultra-anal UK annual inspection coincided with a lack of time and they were abandoned, at negligible cost.
None of them "nickle and dimed" me.
In the er...more relaxed regulatory environment of Taiwan old car survival is likely to be limited mostly by spare parts becoming unavailable. I've had my 300 quid 1986 car for 6 years and have spent very little on it. (exhaust section and one wheel cylinder)
The newish Renault 5, maybe worth 2-3,000 quid at the time, spontaneously combusted, and was a total loss.
New cars suck.
On a couple, a hostile ultra-anal UK annual inspection coincided with a lack of time and they were abandoned, at negligible cost.
None of them "nickle and dimed" me.
In the er...more relaxed regulatory environment of Taiwan old car survival is likely to be limited mostly by spare parts becoming unavailable. I've had my 300 quid 1986 car for 6 years and have spent very little on it. (exhaust section and one wheel cylinder)
The newish Renault 5, maybe worth 2-3,000 quid at the time, spontaneously combusted, and was a total loss.
New cars suck.
Depends how much of the maintenance and repairs you do yourself. I do almost all of my work. If I like the car I just keep fixing it. New ones are "NEW" not necessarily better.
The new ones will come with a new set of issues/annoyances. Even if covered under warranty this can be a pain.
I have seen multiple times; someone get rids of a perfectly good trouble free car, just because it is 10 years old and the new one they get is a lemon or has more issues than the one they got rid of.
Trick is do your research. Take care of what you have and get as many years/miles out of it as possible. IF safety or reliability issues arise that can not be resolved then it is time to move on.
The new ones will come with a new set of issues/annoyances. Even if covered under warranty this can be a pain.
I have seen multiple times; someone get rids of a perfectly good trouble free car, just because it is 10 years old and the new one they get is a lemon or has more issues than the one they got rid of.
Trick is do your research. Take care of what you have and get as many years/miles out of it as possible. IF safety or reliability issues arise that can not be resolved then it is time to move on.
I keep my cars until the beg to be junked. I do most if not all of the work myself. Typically rot and fatigue from NY roads will bring them to the junkyard. I have yet to get rid of a vehicle because of an engine or transmission problem. The last vehicle went to the junkyard because the suspension was shot, body rot, a broken windshield, rotted out exhaust system, and a few other items. It was no longer worth fixing. OTOH my van will be 30 this year, and is in fantastic shape for its age, I have no plans of replacing it.
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