Does High TBN and Ash cusde buildup.

[Bryanccfshr]

I have been researching the Delo 400 10w30 for use in my gas engines. And was happy to see that the TBN is 10.1 that is until I wondered over to Noria for my occassional lurk and search and discovered someone is saying that excessive TBN could casue ring deposits and brought up issues with the Ash counts. That is just one opinion and I would like to hear (hopefully positive) what others have to say here.

I was condisering the change becasue the high TBN and add pack seems like a good match for the coming hot season for my wifes vehicle that she drives multiple short trips daily as a realtor.

As well as being able to handle the rigors of dirty areas like my offroad vehicle encounters this seemed like a perfect match for my small fleet. I am currently running a good 5w30PCMO but would like a more versatile and robust oil to handle the south Texas environment with short and long hot Highway trips in the heat. I am having My doubts about the sear stability of most PCMO's in this situation.

Am I overstressing.. Should I just buy a few gallons of Delo and stop worrying about Ash and TBN deposits?

What I am looking for is to slightly extend the OCI from the severe service interval under severe service and I have a personal preference(due to the savage heat in the summertime and how hard these engines work for 30 wts that Have a cST@100C of >11.0 Am I on the right ttrack or off base?

 

[1sttruck]

I seem to recall that it's especially a concern with aircraft oils. On diesels it seems to be driving some of new specs like CI-4 and CI-4+. I use a blend of a couple of qts Mobil 1 T&S with 3 qts of 'regular' Mobil conventional in each sedan. One car we only drive about once a week in an attempt to keep the miles low and yet keep the battery and stuff 'fresh', and the HDEOs seem ideal for such a situation. The other is used/abused with lots of short trips up and down the hill that we live on, and the additive package and synthetic blend seem like a good bet for minimizing wear.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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...and discovered someone is saying that excessive TBN could casue ring deposits and brought up issues with the Ash counts.

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TBN is generally established by organo-metallic detergents such as calcium and magnesium sulfonates.

With the new overbased detergents, the detergent levels don't have to be too high anymore, so I would not be too concerned in your case.

I would recommend using Auto-RX at least once a year to keep the ring packs clean.

 

[widman]

I wouldn't worry about it. There are a couple of ASH fanatics on the noria board who will defend their opinions to the death.
Since Delo is also SL certified, I wouldn't worry about it. I use it in both my turbo-diesel 4Runner and my gasoline Toyota pickup. I've been using a 10 TBN oil in all my gasoline vehicles (7) for the last 9 years except the two fords that require 5w30. Never taken one of the engines apart though.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Thanks for the the encouragement. I will be switching on the next OCI.

Molekule, "I would recommend using Auto-RX at least once a year to keep the ring packs clean. "

I have began using LC recently as well, Is the regular use of this sufficient for keeping deposits from caking on or is autoRX better at keeping ring packs clean due to the thermal conditions? I don't mind using RX on an occassional basis but I don't want to overdope the oil either.

The advantage to this oil maybe that I don't need to use extra anti-oxidant adds to get good OCI's uunder tough conditions. If that is so I may use the remainder of my LC in other uses.


Thank's again, I am learning every day from this wonderfull resouerce.

 

[kenneth neeley]

While working in the oilfield we ran Delo 400 in Ford and Toyota gasoline engines. I had to tear down one of the 3.0 V-6 Toyota's with over 225k miles on it for head gaskets. Camshaft, valvetrain, and piston crowns were perfectly clean. No deposit built up.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by kenneth neeley:
While working in the oilfield we ran Delo 400 in Ford and Toyota gasoline engines. I had to tear down one of the 3.0 V-6 Toyota's with over 225k miles on it for head gaskets. Camshaft, valvetrain, and piston crowns were perfectly clean. No deposit built up.

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That is good to hear, especially with that mileage.

 

[Gurkha]

Have used both Delo 400 and Mobil Delvac Super in my diesel and gas engines as well as various two wheelers and have had no ill effects whatsoever, in fact had my OM 616 engine go well over 500000 miles. When the garage opens up my valve cover for tappet adjustment, they are amazed at the levels of cleanliness there, also the engine sump is far cleaner than others using different oils, I have nothing but praise for these two value for money products.

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
I have been researching the Delo 400 10w30 for use in my gas engines. And was happy to see that the TBN is 10.1 that is until I wondered over to Noria for my occassional lurk and search and discovered someone is saying that excessive TBN could casue ring deposits and brought up issues with the Ash counts.

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Bryan ,

I would suggest sending Chevron's Lube Tek an email or calling their 800 number and ask what their recommendation is when it comes to using their Delo in your gas motor . Their reply will not have to do with SA or TBN . It will be another remark I'm quite certain and has nothing to do with EPA , catalytic converters or warranty .

Don't get me wrong but who knows more about Chevrons oils than ... Chevron

I would post their reply to me but it came with a note not to share the info within .

 

[Motorbike]

Chevrons answer was negative to using their 15w40 Diesel oil in a 4.3 Chevy V-6 thats out of warranty and other gasoline engine powered passenger cars . They were not simply covering theirselve's with the warranty thing or EPA zinc/phos deal like some other oil makers have in the past .

I appreciate their ernest reply and will buy their PCMO at some time in the future for them taking time to reply to me .

I got the impression if the 4.3 was ran on diesel it would have been a different story

 

[Jelly]

Finally realizing the importance of good grades, the relative insignificance of all this oil stuff, and in the effort to get an A in every one of my classes this semester, I'll be cutting back on my posting here at BiTOG and won't respond everytime someone says something that I think is out of line or incorrect.

On that note, this will be the final time I address Motorbike and his dislike for HDEO's in gas engines.

A couple of years ago, I would have never thought on using these oils in gas engines. But through learning about oils here at BiTOG, reading a couple books on the subject, and in the field experimentation, I feel very comfortable recommending them to people as long as the application in question can use such an oil and the conditions of operation meet a few select requirements (not too cold, etc.).

As aforementioned, in the field experience has taught me that these great oils perform admirably in a wide variety of applications...everything from 3.5HP B&S and 5.9 ISB's to 93 octane blown big-blocks in boats.

My conclusion and closing statement is this: Regardless of what anyone on here says, no matter how well they articulate themselves or appear knowledgeable on the issue at hand, give these oils a try if you feel they might just work out for your specific application.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Here is The Lube Tek Reply.

Bryan,
I do not recommend the use of Delo 400 in a gasoline engine of a
passenger car, even if it meets the API classification your car
requires. Delo 400 is a diesel engine oil and has no limits on zinc and
phosphorus. Gasoline engine oils (strictly SL or SM with no diesel
classification) have strict limits on zinc and phosphorus because these
additives can cause problems with a catylitic converter. Supreme is the
oil to use in your passenger cars

* Comments?

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:

* Comments?

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Yeah , thats no-where near the answer I recieved

Try again , maybe you get the same person I did

He threw out some tech and said nothing about phos, zinc or converters . But I knew the answer , just needed the info direct from Chevron to give to a non BITOG friend who is flat ruining his engine this winter running thick diesel oils and I got what I needed

 

[haley10]

Chevron Supreme has shown excellent results as a 5K conventional oil for gassers and is cheaper than Delo.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

After that bottled answer from Chevron I am simply digesting the pros and cons. How much is legal Wrangling and how much is Tech?

The more questions I ask the more I have. Again I like the fact that the Delo 10w30 has a cST of 11.1 I doubt that ZDDP has much affect on the emissions on non-oil burning engines.

Honestly I still like the idea of using Delo for my purpose but I have a couple of months before my next change to think it over.

 

[Motorbike]

You want some great 11cSt Chevron ?

Try some Schaeffers # 132 or some Lucas Synthetic additive with 5w or 10w30 Chevron Supreme .

TBN is 8+ correct ?

EDIT: Most good High Mileage oil will tote the mail well too .

[ January 11, 2005, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Motorbike:
You want some great 11cSt Chevron ?

Try some Schaeffers # 132 or some Lucas Synthetic additive with 5w or 10w30 Chevron Supreme .

TBN is 8+ correct ?

EDIT: Most good High Mileage oil will tote the mail well too .

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I may stick with the Motorcraft and see how it holds up. That with a second run UOA will give me more data than supposition from virgin specs.

If the MC holds up to a 3000 mile round trip and a couple of months of round town traffic with my wife it may be a keeper. If it holds up it is a great value. If it looks borderline under the service then I will adjust. I just don't want to switch for the sake of doing so, I will approach this sytematicly and not emotionally. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[1sttruck]

I have a Cummins CARB engine in my truck, which uses a catalytic converter, so go figure. Maybe ask about using Delo in diesel CARB engines that have converters, to see what they say ?

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Motorbike,
Thanks for the idea. I sent off a note. Now I can't wait to here the response.


I suppose you can't share if Chevron recomendation was positive or negative in regards to using Delo as a substitute for PCMO's?

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by widman:

There are a couple of ASH fanatics on the noria board who will defend their opinions to the death.

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Are they defending ashless dispersants ? An oil can have a ashless dispersant and still have a relatively high SA .