Do you really need any thicker than 0W-20?
- Thread starter Gokhan
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Hehehe. Great thread.
I think if oil temps can be held low enough for a 20 grade to maintain film strength then why bother going thicker. It's the oil film and film strength we are after so if the temps don't elevate to the point of compromising the oil film then I'm on board using a 20 grade.
Would thicker improve anything under these circumstances?
I think if oil temps can be held low enough for a 20 grade to maintain film strength then why bother going thicker. It's the oil film and film strength we are after so if the temps don't elevate to the point of compromising the oil film then I'm on board using a 20 grade.
Would thicker improve anything under these circumstances?
Why the love for Motorcraft 5w20 semi-syn Shannow?.....is it a particularly great performer in cold or hot weather?
I'm already thinking which 5w20 (from my stash) I'll use next winter when my daughter takes either the Corolla or Elantra up to college in Rochester NY (very cold)....probably 5w20 PP...
I'm already thinking which 5w20 (from my stash) I'll use next winter when my daughter takes either the Corolla or Elantra up to college in Rochester NY (very cold)....probably 5w20 PP...
my old buck runs 65 psi at 60 mph,whether is 30 wgt or 40 wgt, if u got oil pressure you should be ok...
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
That link you posted seems to have coolant contamination.
A thicker oil might help but I'd stay conventional and change it frequently until its fixed(or dies)
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I did it. I ran PYB dino 5W-20 for 5k miles and then Toyota synthetic (by ExxonMobil) 0W-20 for 5k miles. The car was driven hard, full-throttle in California/Nevdad desert heat, and had a lot of short trips. Results? The engine runs smoother every day and smoother than ever in recent years. There is hardly any oil consumption. Wear metals are very low.
UOA Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN, 5,306 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC
Does anyone think that using thicker oil would improve this UOA? There is this myth about thinner oil being only suitable for newer engine designs but I don't seem to have any problems running 0W-20 in a 28-year-old engine.
The warm-up benefits of ultra-high-viscosity-index oils like Toyota 0W-20 are huge, as you don't have to worry about poor lubrication efficiency because of viscosity being too high during warm-up.
Is there really a gas-engine automotive application that really requires thick oil? Diesels, which generate a lot of abrasive soot particles, are a different story of course.
A thicker oil might help but I'd stay conventional and change it frequently until its fixed(or dies)
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I did it. I ran PYB dino 5W-20 for 5k miles and then Toyota synthetic (by ExxonMobil) 0W-20 for 5k miles. The car was driven hard, full-throttle in California/Nevdad desert heat, and had a lot of short trips. Results? The engine runs smoother every day and smoother than ever in recent years. There is hardly any oil consumption. Wear metals are very low.
UOA Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN, 5,306 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC
Does anyone think that using thicker oil would improve this UOA? There is this myth about thinner oil being only suitable for newer engine designs but I don't seem to have any problems running 0W-20 in a 28-year-old engine.
The warm-up benefits of ultra-high-viscosity-index oils like Toyota 0W-20 are huge, as you don't have to worry about poor lubrication efficiency because of viscosity being too high during warm-up.
Is there really a gas-engine automotive application that really requires thick oil? Diesels, which generate a lot of abrasive soot particles, are a different story of course.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
Why is that exactly. If the engine has adequate oil pressure and volume what exactly is it missing causing a larger motor to destroy itself.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
Why is that exactly. If the engine has adequate oil pressure and volume what exactly is it missing causing a larger motor to destroy itself.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
Why is that exactly. If the engine has adequate oil pressure and volume what exactly is it missing causing a larger motor to destroy itself.
Crank flex its that simple. The more cylinders and less main bearings the more flex can occur.
For low viscosity oils to protect properly the crank must remain totally stable in its main bearing bores which use lower clearance bearings.
This is a serious consideration for anyone considering running lighter oils in older engines or engines not back spec'd for low viscosity oil.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/...and_racing.aspx
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
Why is that exactly. If the engine has adequate oil pressure and volume what exactly is it missing causing a larger motor to destroy itself.
Crank flex its that simple. The more cylinders and less main bearings the more flex can occur.
For low viscosity oils to protect properly the crank must remain totally stable in its main bearing bores which use lower clearance bearings.
This is a serious consideration for anyone considering running lighter oils in older engines or engines not back spec'd for low viscosity oil.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/...and_racing.aspx
Originally Posted By: tig1
I ran 20wt oils in the 60s and 70s designed for 10-40 and never had an issue. Engines always ran great with the exception of a little more oil use. 0-20 still giving my engines excellant performance to this day.
Just because you got away with it doesn't mean its good or the right thing to do.
I ran 20wt oils in the 60s and 70s designed for 10-40 and never had an issue. Engines always ran great with the exception of a little more oil use. 0-20 still giving my engines excellant performance to this day.
Just because you got away with it doesn't mean its good or the right thing to do.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: tig1
I ran 20wt oils in the 60s and 70s designed for 10-40 and never had an issue. Engines always ran great with the exception of a little more oil use. 0-20 still giving my engines excellant performance to this day.
Just because you got away with it doesn't mean its good or the right thing to do.
Got away with it!! LOL to that. Not only did I get away with it, but my engines performed great on 20wt oils for years.
Originally Posted By: tig1
I ran 20wt oils in the 60s and 70s designed for 10-40 and never had an issue. Engines always ran great with the exception of a little more oil use. 0-20 still giving my engines excellant performance to this day.
Just because you got away with it doesn't mean its good or the right thing to do.
Got away with it!! LOL to that. Not only did I get away with it, but my engines performed great on 20wt oils for years.
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
Originally Posted By: Rand
I'd stay conventional and change it frequently
Conventional/dino is either for people who don't know or for people whose engines burn oil.
With the prices of fully synthetic oil being so low nowadays, there is no reason to overlook their multitude of benefits in an engine that doesn't burn oil.
I went 5k miles and the oil was still very healthy. I don't intend to go more than 5k miles anyway.
I'd stay conventional and change it frequently
Conventional/dino is either for people who don't know or for people whose engines burn oil.
I went 5k miles and the oil was still very healthy. I don't intend to go more than 5k miles anyway.
Originally Posted By: Trav
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
It was driven under extreme conditions, including full throttle on steep grades in hot weather.
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
It was driven under extreme conditions, including full throttle on steep grades in hot weather.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Trav
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
It was driven under extreme conditions, including full throttle on steep grades in hot weather.
I actually only drove on days when the temp was under 60F. Only drove downhill with 3% grades. Never allowed my engine to idle longer than 30 sec. Changed the oil every 200 miles with two filter changes in between. And tied a fine mesh basket behind the tail pipe to collect all the metal shavings coming through the exhaust system.. But I still managed to use 20wt oil.
Originally Posted By: Trav
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
It was driven under extreme conditions, including full throttle on steep grades in hot weather.
I actually only drove on days when the temp was under 60F. Only drove downhill with 3% grades. Never allowed my engine to idle longer than 30 sec. Changed the oil every 200 miles with two filter changes in between. And tied a fine mesh basket behind the tail pipe to collect all the metal shavings coming through the exhaust system.. But I still managed to use 20wt oil.
Doesn't the high VI and high NOACK of the OEM 0W-20's indicate an inferior base stock compared to the offerings from Shell or Mobil?
So what are you saying here? Are you saying because you got away with using straight 20w in an old school engine everyone can use it without any problems?
It sure sounds like it or at least implying it.
It sure sounds like it or at least implying it.
Motorcraft = excellent 5w20. one of the best, and im sure everyone would agree. if it was still $14 a jug many of us would still be running it.
its the $19 a jug now that makes us consider QSUD/PP instead. although im not convinced either one actually outperforms motorcraft.
as far as the 20wt discussion im going to pull with TRAV on this one and say that the correct grade the engine was originally spec'd for is probably the safer choice. no way am i going to dump Toyota 0w20 in my S2000 and trust it to be ok. that's silly, its spec'd 10w30 or 5w40 for a reason. i dont believe any grade of oil is a cover all vis.
its the $19 a jug now that makes us consider QSUD/PP instead. although im not convinced either one actually outperforms motorcraft.
as far as the 20wt discussion im going to pull with TRAV on this one and say that the correct grade the engine was originally spec'd for is probably the safer choice. no way am i going to dump Toyota 0w20 in my S2000 and trust it to be ok. that's silly, its spec'd 10w30 or 5w40 for a reason. i dont believe any grade of oil is a cover all vis.
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The crankshaft on my 4 cylinder cars is longer than the V6, and similar in length to the V8 on my BMW. I still don't see it.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
Why is that exactly. If the engine has adequate oil pressure and volume what exactly is it missing causing a larger motor to destroy itself.
Crank flex its that simple. The more cylinders and less main bearings the more flex can occur.
For low viscosity oils to protect properly the crank must remain totally stable in its main bearing bores which use lower clearance bearings.
This is a serious consideration for anyone considering running lighter oils in older engines or engines not back spec'd for low viscosity oil.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/...and_racing.aspx
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
20 wts are probably perfect for a 4-banger. Anything thicker would probably slow them down. A muscle car engine would probably destroy itself on a 20 wt.
Why is that exactly. If the engine has adequate oil pressure and volume what exactly is it missing causing a larger motor to destroy itself.
Crank flex its that simple. The more cylinders and less main bearings the more flex can occur.
For low viscosity oils to protect properly the crank must remain totally stable in its main bearing bores which use lower clearance bearings.
This is a serious consideration for anyone considering running lighter oils in older engines or engines not back spec'd for low viscosity oil.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/...and_racing.aspx
And you know this how?
Originally Posted By: Trav
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
Originally Posted By: Trav
You only got away with it because of the engine and the conditions it was driven under.
Using it in another engine or an engine driven differently and the results may not have been so positive. Yes Tig you really only did get away with it in those old engines.
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