2017 Porsche Panamera 4. Factory 0w-20 too thin for southwest?
- Thread starter coulter
- Start date
I'd consider 214°F as eminently 'cool'. Yes, you're ok with C20 in particular
your engine oil temp doesn't exceed say 240-250°F or so.
- if Porsche recommends C20 (0W-20, virtually same as VW 508 00/509 00)
you're entirely ok with it
- I'd almost bet Porsche also allows for Porsche C30 (0W/5W-30, virtually
same as VW 504 00/507 00) and go for if you feel more comfortable
- M1 ESP X2 (C20 & VW 508 00/509 00 & MB229.71) is an excellent product
- the same applies to M1 ESP 5W-30 (C30 & VW 504 00 and BMW LL-04
as well as MB229.51 & 52) >> Walmart
- Porsche C40 (VW 511 00) is kind of 40-weight brother of C30/VW 504 00
- see my signature for current VW approved oils (eg 504 00 and 511 00)
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People incorrectly equate lower viscosity as a trade off between MPG and engine wear. This is completely off base because they fail to take into consideration oil cooling as well as changes in materials used in manufacturing said engines. Without knowing your oil temps it's hard to say whether an increase in viscosity would be worth it for your application. I would imagine your Porsche has quite a few oil coolers to keep viscosity within whatever window they're shooting for. What sort of bearings is Porsche using? Are they using the polymer coated bearings (i.e. IROX) which BMW and others have been using for over the past 5 yrs on their engines which also use 20 grades?
If you want something cheaper and readily available there's always M1 ESP 5w30 or 0w30 as well as Shell Euro L 5w30. These have Porsche C30 approvals and are obviously fine to run in your sweet running Panamera.
Another thing which is sometimes overlooked in desert environments is the cooling system. Running a 40/60 (Glycol/Water) mix would help shed temps faster but your engine is probably programmed to run at X degrees under Y driving profile.
EDIT: I just saw you post your oil temps. 20 grade is fine but you can obviously go higher if you want.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
No, the Porsche approval does. On here you will get opinions. Some educated, others emotional. You don't need higher than the XW-20 but it wouldn't hurt anything to up the viscosity either.
But doesnt that say something that in order for the 20w oil to be used, the engine has to be upgraded so it doesnt cause issues?
Again, I dont think the engine grenades with what Porsche recommends, but if the automaker did not have mpg numbers to hit, would they be using this same oil? I've seen with other vehicles I've owned, they have a US specification for the oil and in every other country, it's a thicker oil. The US is one of the only countries that has CAFE. I dont think it's a coincidence the US spec'd car seem to be getting the thinner oil. It clearly has MPG benefits. So what are the tradeoffs with a thinner oil?
Only time I'm putting any 0w-20 oil in anything might be my air compressors, a nice SP rated, low detergent oil for the compressor side.
Well yes, but that doesn't only happen with 20 grades. For example back in 2007 when BMW released their first TTI6 the cars did not always come with oil coolers and they had running problems. At the time BMW's were using 30 and 40 grade oils. Later on oil coolers became standard. Plenty of supercars run heavier grades and have oil coolers. Think Porsche GT3. It just depends on the application and the engineering decisions.
The EU has similar requirements and that market has been moving to 20 grades for a couple of years now. The current line up of BMW engines, which were designed in the last decade, are designed to use 20 grades. BMW is moving to 16 grades in these engines.
Technically with thinner grades the engine experiences less parasitic drag. Reducing parasitic drag increases MPGS. EPS (Electronic Power Steering) for example removes parasitic drag entirely.
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And honestly, I dont care one bit about mpgs on a car like this. Especially when we're talking about tenths of an mpg between different oil grades. The manufacturer HAS TO play ball and do this to comply with stupid laws, but we as consumers, don't. I'd rather have better protection for my engine than .1mpg better fuel economy.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
This sounds a little like confirmation bias. No one said you must run 20. In fact, everyone has said it wouldn't be an issue in the least but you can also go thicker. Yet your replies suggest you've made up your mind. If that's what you wish, by all means... your Panamera will be fine on the thicker oil.
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Automakers have to deploy significant resources to make sure these engines can continue to perform as expected when using thinner grades. The additional fleetwide mpgs allows them to avoid tens of millions in penalties which would otherwise be passed on to you as the consumer in higher prices. Per BMW a thinner grade can save up to 3‰ (probably going from 40 grade to 20 grade) in fuel. Stop start systems, EPS all contribute and add up when you're talking tens of thousands of units.
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Seems like you're missing the point of this site.
Is there a single car made that if you use the factory recommended viscosity of oil, it's an issue? Please name the vehicle if that is the case.
I'm asking if there's a better option than what the factory recommends in my climate. So when someone says "the factory oil is fine" , that's not my question. "Is there a better option?" is what I'm asking.
Or tell me why 0w-20 is better than a thicker oil alternative?
Instead, I get ridiculous "it wont hurt anything" or "there will be no issue" type answers. Thanks for chiming in, but that's absolutely useless. We should all just use the weight listed on the fill cap and not question authority.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Oh, I'm pretty caught up on the point of this site, and disagree you've been given ridiculous answers.
You will get better wear protection from an HTHS of 3.5+ over one with 2.6-2.9. Approvals are also much more important with Euro oils than 100°c cSt numbers. So you may have the same cSt in a Euro oil as with an API for a 5w30 but the HTHS will be very different (except for the 20 where both API and Euro 20s share similar HTHS). If you want to know which approval meets what HTHS for Porsche, Google Lubrizol 360 / Lubrizol Relative Performace tool.
You will get better wear protection from an HTHS of 3.5+ over one with 2.6-2.9. Approvals are also much more important with Euro oils than 100°c cSt numbers. So you may have the same cSt in a Euro oil as with an API for a 5w30 but the HTHS will be very different (except for the 20 where both API and Euro 20s share similar HTHS). If you want to know which approval meets what HTHS for Porsche, Google Lubrizol 360 / Lubrizol Relative Performace tool.
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"Better" is simply too broad. Better for what? Running to/from work, soccer practice, and some woolly definition of "spirited driving"? Multiple track sessions? Towing?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
A40, C40, C30, C20 are all current approvals.
That engine is recommended in various markets for C30 and some versions for C40, VW511.00.
Spirited driving.
While in "general"-true. There are additional considerations. The "Three Factor Bearing equation/graph gives relationships of Load, RPM, For instance more Load, Lower Viscosity and lower RPMs all push the graph/chart ion the direction of m ore bearing wear and Failure area. So a 30 wt oil will protect MORE than 20 wt. oil in instances or high power at low rpm or lugging. This would of course occure at rapid accelerations in areas say below 3000 rpms.
The Subaru FA 20 Engine requires 30 wt oil in the Turbo model and 20 wt in the NA version. Why? LOAD is different in the otherwise identical engines. Load increases, Viscosity increases. Will UOA's be different in normal driving? No. Will the be different in aggressive driving situations? Likely. But at the very least they give you an increased buffer against operational anomalies.
This is just simply a matter of applying a bit of lubrication theory for someone who like the OP asked a question. =
To the OP. Make your own decision. 30 wt. certainly will not cause any problems.
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