Difference between M1 0w30 afe and 0w30 esp?

[edyvw]

Mobil 1 0w30 AFE is API SP and will meet many approvals for small displacement turbo charged engines as it passes lspi tests. ESP approvals are more from cars that have v6 engines.

I am not going to unpack everything you wrote here, because it would be impossible to address that BS in any meaningful time.

I will just say, that whoever is trying to get some advice here, should avoid your posts like a plague.
You are talking small turbo engines. Those engines are used in Europe since 1989. These approvals ESP has are designed precisely with small turbo engines in mind.

Afe is ILSAC, energy conserving oil.
ESP is DERIVED from C3 specification (which is regularly updated!!!). It is not energy conserving oil, it is made out of much better base stocks, has far lower Noack, obviously higher minimum HTHS, etc. Because it is C3 and has numerous other approvals, it is “stay in grade” oil, meaning that for example bcs . it has MB229.51/52 has to be able to stay in grade in MB engines recommended for that approval, or VW504.00/507.00.

Personally, unless absolutely necessary, I would not use Afe 0W30 (unless too cold, like -20 and below), but 5W30EP.
ESP is not necessary in engines such as 2GE-FE or FKS. But, if price is similar to Afe, yeah why not.
Where I would definitely consider ESP are new turbo engines in Toyota/Lexus.

 

[edyvw]

Absolutely none of those certs are meant for small displacement turbo engines and if you have one check your manual and youll see that.

As an example the vw504 is for cars like the audi rs5 v6 while vw508 which has lspi testing is for the Audi 2.0t.

The Porsche c30 is for the old Cayenne. The small displacement turbo porsches require c40 which....you guessed it...has lspi testing requirements in it. C30 does not.

Again just read your manual folks. No need to guess.

ESP has 1700ppm calcium and virtually no magnesium. Its not a lspi mitigating oil.

View attachment 125174




AFE has under 1000ppm calcium and 650 mg

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And this means.....


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Absolutely not true!

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

VAG/Euro approvals have nothing to do with engine size, the 3.0 TFSI takes it as well. It just has to do with when the engine was developed or updated. The 2.0 for example before 2018 takes 504 but 2019 and later takes 508.

 

[bhvrdr]

I am not going to unpack everything you wrote here, because it would be impossible to address that BS in any meaningful time.

I will just say, that whoever is trying to get some advice here, should avoid your posts like a plague.
You are talking small turbo engines. Those engines are used in Europe since 1989. These approvals ESP has are designed precisely with small turbo engines in mind.

Afe is ILSAC, energy conserving oil.
ESP is DERIVED from C3 specification (which is regularly updated!!!). It is not energy conserving oil, it is made out of much better base stocks, has far lower Noack, obviously higher minimum HTHS, etc. Because it is C3 and has numerous other approvals, it is “stay in grade” oil, meaning that for example bcs . it has MB229.51/52 has to be able to stay in grade in MB engines recommended for that approval, or VW504.00/507.00.

Personally, unless absolutely necessary, I would not use Afe 0W30 (unless too cold, like -20 and below), but 5W30EP.
ESP is not necessary in engines such as 2GE-FE or FKS. But, if price is similar to Afe, yeah why not.
Where I would definitely consider ESP are new turbo engines in Toyota/Lex

VAG/Euro approvals have nothing to do with engine size, the 3.0 TFSI takes it as well. It just has to do with when the engine was developed or updated. The 2.0 for example before 2018 takes 504 but 2019 and later takes 508.

Absolutely not true!

ESP in my engine would literally void the warranty....

2020+

2018 +

Btw there are plenty of 2022 Audis that still require vw504.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

ESP in my engine would literally void the warranty....

2020+

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2018 +
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I'm not sure why you quoted me in there, I was not suggesting you use ESP in your engine. I recommend people follow the manual. I use ESP because my vehicle calls for it (imagine that!).

 

[edyvw]

ESP in my engine would literally void the warranty....

2020+

View attachment 125193


2018 +
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You DON’T understand how approvals work, what certain approvals mean etc.
Just because manufacturer of YOUR vehicle doesn’t recommend oil like ESP, does not mean it is everything you wrote above. The wording in that warranty is such that manufacturer can get away with a lot. And what vehicle is that?
You have European section where you can unpack all this about API, ACEA etc.
You are making incredible assumptions. And assumption in mother of all screwups.

 

[bhvrdr]

You DON’T understand how approvals work, what certain approvals mean etc.
Just because manufacturer of YOUR vehicle doesn’t recommend oil like ESP, does not mean it is everything you wrote above. The wording in that warranty is such that manufacturer can get away with a lot. And what vehicle is that?
You have European section where you can unpack all this about API, ACEA etc.
You are making incredible assumptions. And assumption in mother of all screwups.

I didn't assume i literally posted the calcium content showing you ...

ESP is not an lspi mitigating oil. Are you stating it is?


M1 Oils that are...

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...ines/low-speed-pre-ignition-engine-protection

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I didn't assume i literally posted the calcium content showing you ...

ESP is not an lspi mitigating oil. Are you stating it is?




View attachment 125195

Euro cars don't really have LSPI problems, for the most part. They know how to build engines, and use proper fuel.

 

[bhvrdr]

Euro cars don't really have LSPI problems, for the most part. They know how to build engines, and use proper fuel.

In Europe they do well due to fuel. In the usa they don't. Im seeing quite a few euro manufacturers scrambling to put requirements on all their cars sold in the usa.

The screenshot above was from one of my Italian cars US manuals making absolutely sure an lspi mitigating oil is used. The European manual has remained the same as pre sn plus days.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I didn't assume i literally posted the calcium content showing you ...

ESP is not an lspi mitigating oil. Are you stating it is?


M1 Oils that are...

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...ines/low-speed-pre-ignition-engine-protection


View attachment 125195

Depends on the weight. For example ESP 0w20 and ESP 0w40 are fine because there are SP and/or SN+.

 

[edyvw]

I didn't assume i literally posted the calcium content showing you ...

ESP is not an lspi mitigating oil. Are you stating it is?


M1 Oils that are...

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...ines/low-speed-pre-ignition-engine-protection


View attachment 125195

ESP has MB229.52 test that has most rigorous LSPI test. MB approvals are comprehensively THE MOST stringent approvals. They are gold standard!
Calcium level of 1,000 or 1,700 doesn’t mean anything if looked alone. The question is how it is balanced with other additives. But since you mentioned it, what is minimum calcium level that causes LSPI? For example my 2.0T can run on M1 0W40FS that has calcium level around 3,400ppm and doesn’t have LSPI issues. It happens in extremely rare events.
Also, do you actually know what causes LSPI? Low calcium is band aid. Calcium is not cause. Design is.

 

[bhvrdr]

Depends on the weight. For example ESP 0w20 and ESP 0w40 are fine because there are SP and/or SN+.

Correct. Exactly. We're talking ESP 0w30 though which isnt.

 

[bhvrdr]

ESP has MB229.52 test that has most rigorous LSPI test. MB approvals are comprehensively THE MOST stringent approvals. They are gold standard!
Calcium level of 1,000 or 1,700 doesn’t mean anything if looked alone. The question is how it is balanced with other additives. But since you mentioned it, what is minimum calcium level that causes LSPI? For example my 2.0T can run on M1 0W40FS that has calcium level around 3,400ppm and doesn’t have LSPI issues. It happens in extremely rare events.
Also, do you actually know what causes LSPI? Low calcium is band aid. Calcium is not cause. Design is.

You failed to answer the question. Are you stating M1 0w30 ESP is an lspi mitigating oil?

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

In Europe they do well due to fuel. In the usa they don't. Im seeing quite a few euro manufacturers scrambling to put requirements on all their cars sold in the usa.

The screenshot above was from one of my Italian cars US manuals making absolutely sure an lspi mitigating oil is used. The European manual has remained the same as pre sn plus days.

Only very recently (2019?) have they started allowing 87 octane. I think the jury is still out on the long term ramifications of that but I also believe it's safe to say they spent a lot of time testing it beforehand. I also don't believe any vehicle approved for 87 is also using 504, I believe they all call for 508 (in the VAG world anyway).

 

[edyvw]

You failed to answer the question. Are you stating M1 0w30 ESP is an lspi mitigating oil?

There is no mitigation. There is possible prevention as LSPI happens only in certain cases (very low rpm, very high boost).
YES, ESP 0W30 has LSPI test. But, again, no oil can mitigate LSPI. It potentially prevents. Just bcs. oil passed LSPI test, doesn’t mean it won’t happen. API SP is tested on FORD Ecoboost engine that DOES NOT have known LSPI issues. It is not tested on any other turbo engine. So, it is not guaranteed!
Oil approved for MB229.52 is much safer bet LSPI prevention wise as MB tests that on smaller turbo engines.
Both ESP 0W30 and 5W30 have MB229.52! Therefore both have LSPI test.

 

[jmillet]

My 2.5L turbo powered 2021 Sonata N Line calls for 0W-30 full synthetic oil and I've been filling with Mobil1 AFE rather than ESP based on price difference and a 6000-mile OCI.

 

[bhvrdr]

There is no mitigation. There is possible prevention as LSPI happens only in certain cases (very low rpm, very high boost).
YES, ESP 0W30 has LSPI test. But, again, no oil can mitigate LSPI. It potentially prevents. Just bcs. oil passed LSPI test, doesn’t mean it won’t happen. API SP is tested on FORD Ecoboost engine that DOES NOT have known LSPI issues. It is not tested on any other turbo engine. So, it is not guaranteed!
Oil approved for MB229.52 is much safer bet LSPI prevention wise as MB tests that on smaller turbo engines.
Both ESP 0W30 and 5W30 have MB229.52! Therefore both have LSPI test.

It does have lspi testing? Not according to mobil 1. Which lspi testing did m1 0w30 esp submit to?

Not sure if you know what mitigate means btw.

 

[edyvw]

It does have lspi testing? Not according to mobil 1. Which lspi testing did m1 0w30 esp submit to?

Not sure if you know what mitigate means btw.

View attachment 125196

I am not going go read it for you again or write it.
Since you know how to search for mitigation, search what approval means.
Than go find test sequence of MB229.52.
But, please stop writing your posts like they are factual. You base your posts on your assumption which is based on your search for confirmation bias.
Bottom line: Afe is nowhere near as good oil as ESP, LSPI MITIGATION wise or if some other variable is in question.
Deal with it.

 

[edyvw]

My 2.5L turbo powered 2021 Sonata N Line calls for 0W-30 full synthetic oil and I've been filling with Mobil1 AFE rather than ESP based on price difference and a 6000-mile OCI.

Small turbo engine is generally considered below 2.0ltr.
If 2.5ltr engine has LSPI issue, I would run away from it.
As far as I know, that engine doesn’t have issues. But take into consideration that Hyundai needed like 10years to correct manual wording. They recommend ACEA A5 or “higher” which is not how ACEA sequence works.

 

[bhvrdr]

I am not going go read it for you again or write it.
Since you know how to search for mitigation, search what approval means.
Than go find test sequence of MB229.52.
But, please stop writing your posts like they are factual. You base your posts on your assumption which is based on your search for confirmation bias.
Bottom line: Afe is nowhere near as good oil as ESP, LSPI MITIGATION wise or if some other variable is in question.
Deal with it.

Mobil 1 states it is not lspi mitigating. I believe them over you. You should know 229.52 has been changed multiple times btw.

Mobil 1 states 0w30 AFE is lspi mitigating. Do you dispute that as well?

It seems you are missing the facts. Please don't state your assumptions as facts ar at least provide the data as i did.