Difference between M1 0w30 afe and 0w30 esp?

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Now you’re just being silly.

So you do think someone at the dealership aporoves powertrain repairs?

They do not.

Ive brokered deals with Audi dealerships carrying dealer sold and installed performance parts (from APR) and people thought because the dealership installed them they were covered lol. Obviously you know how that went.
 
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See post 290 and 292. Again completely moot point. The manufacturer says to use the oil in your manual. If you don't they say they may mot cover a repair they deem related to not using it. That's all that needs to be known

When a car manufacturer says "Use this oil or you your car may be damaged and it won't be covered by warranty" thats called an oil requirement. Of course they don't have oil police who can force you to use it but thats why they say they may just deny warranty coverage.

It sounds like you are literally having to see the word requirement which is two lines up in the manual...

View attachment 128453

And the Audi and VW manual also specs the exact oil certification right? It says use the oil that is indicated on your underhood sticker right?

And your sticker doesn't say vw508 or vw504 on it does it? It has one single oil certification on it just like my Audi and every other one sold does right?

Again, sure you can pour olive oil in there if you want. But the manufacturer is telling you it may cause damage and they're not covering it. Thats called an oil requirement.
It simply states the the engine is filled with oil which meets the requirements of manufacturers prescribed OCI. In addition it mentions that the prescribed lubricants meet FE and emissions targets.

I does not say you are required to use any particular type of oil.
 
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And that's what I stated.

What it really means is an automaker cannot require you to use the automaker's (say) branded oil for warranty coverage. If there are aftermarket oils that meet the automaker's specifications, then automakers are in the clear and the "provided for free" claim is no longer valid.
I am not disagreeing with you, just adding context.
 
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It simply states the the engine is filled with oil which meets the requirements of manufacturers prescribed OCI. In addition it mentions that the prescribed lubricants meet FE and emissions targets.

I does not say you are required to use any particular type of oil.


That’s how I read it as well. There is a difference between the two.

This is turning into a word salad puzzle.
 
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Just going to lob this from the bleachers as this whole exchange strikes me as being akin to trying to pee up a tree, but it would appear the disconnect is the result of parsing individual segments of statements (like what is highlighted in red) and not the actual statement in its entirety here.

It dumbs down to two linked parameters, which, by themselves, are pretty straightforward:
1. Using a lubricant that does not meet SN Plus or an equivalent specification CAN cause damage.

So, not WILL cause damage, but it CAN cause damage. Like, if you put in City Star, there's a possibility that damage could arise from using this lubricant. Pretty straight forward.

2. If you proceed with #1; if you use a lubricant that does not meet the SN Plus or equivalent specification, and it DOES cause damage, this may not be covered by the vehicle warranty.

Now, the dealer/manufacturer would need to prove that the use of the non-spec product was the source of the damage in order to deny warranty. If you were running Redline and your timing chain guide disintegrated, resulting in a warranty claim, the dealer and OEM would first need a reason to try and point a finger at the oil for causing this failure. This could be further complicated by existing TSB's for this issue (like Ford had for the Modular) suggesting that this is a materials/QC issue.

On the other hand, if you were running ND30 and your engine seized due to sludge, they've got very good grounds to blame the non-spec lubricant selection and deny coverage.

Ultimately, if you run City Star, Redline, SynLube, AMSOIL SS, HPL, ND30...etc you are not voiding your warranty. However, you may be setting the stage for coverage denial if the product is of insufficient quality (City Star, Synlube, ND30) in the event that there is an issue as a result of that product's use that can be easily identified by the dealer/OEM.

If BMW tells you to use LL-01 and you use SuperTech conventional 5W-30 and the engine sludges up, BMW has legitimate grounds to deny you coverage. On the other hand, if you are using AMSOIL and it breaks a valve spring, they don't.

If you don't want to deal with the potential headache, it's always easiest to just follow the OEM recommendations.
Absolutely correct and mirrors what i said on my last post.


As you said if you don't want to deal with a warranty denial headache you use the oem recommended oil that they say if you don't use may result in warranty denial.


As far as the manufacturer having to prove your oil choice caused the fauilure, thats true if you take them to court over the denial. You absolutely do not want to have to do that. Winning a case against manufacturer engineers will not be fun.


The reality can be as simple as providing receipts from a non specced oil and then the manufacturer denies the claim. I've seen this dozens of times.

You then contact the manufacturers customer care, the dealership management, the ftc, ehe bbb, have your lawyer write a letter and hope they reverse their decision.

If they dont you're going to court. Good luck
This is endless.

Have fun, you two.
 
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