Difference between M1 0w30 afe and 0w30 esp?

[bhvrdr]

Mobil 1 0w30 AFE is API SP and will meet many approvals for small displacement turbo charged engines as it passes lspi tests. ESP approvals are more from cars that have v6 engines.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I too use the ESP 0w30 in my 22 Lexus RX350. I used the regular Mobil 1 API 5w30 and when I switched it to the ESP 0w30, the engine was quieter. The owners manual for everywhere but USA ‘recommends’ ACEA C3 and in US they ‘recommend’ 0w20 for ya know good ole CAFE! I use the ESP 0w30 in my 2018 Honda Accord as well bc the owners manual says the same for everywhere outside of US to use ACEA C3. That was a world of difference with noise when I dumped that 0w20 and went to the 30 weight.

I'm running a standard 0w30 or 5w30 synthetic M1 in my Accord. Am I doing the best thing?

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I'm running a standard 0w30 or 5w30 synthetic M1 in my Accord. Am I doing the best thing?

Are you keeping the car long term and what climate do you live in?

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Mobil 1 0w30 AFE is API SP and will meet many approvals for small displacement turbo charged engines as it passes lspi tests. ESP approvals are more from cars that have v6 engines.

No ESP is not for just V6 engines! API is nothing compared to ACEA.

 

[bhvrdr]

No ESP is not for just V6 engines! API is nothing compared to ACEA.

Its not about api vs acea. Its about WHICH ACEA and WHICH API they meet.

Api sn plus and sp tests for lspi and these oils are specifically formulated to suppress lspi which is the number 1 killer of small displacement turbo engines. This is why youll see most all small displacement turbo engines manufacturer specs aligned with
m1 0w30 afe. And youll see the manufacturers v6 engine oil specs in line with the ESP which is the old acea c3 which is like api sn.

ACEA A7 / B7 would be similar spec for small displacement turbo engines that the API SP is. Thats like the m1 afe.


The m1 ESP is ACEA C3 is similar to the old API SN and has no lspi testing requirement.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Are you keeping the car long term and what climate do you live in?

Car has 213,000 miles on it. Definitely long term and I do siphon out a couple of quarts and replace every 4,000 miles. Central Kansas weather . Change CVT fluid every 10-15000 miles

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Its not about api vs acea. Its about WHICH ACEA and WHICH API they meet.

Api sn plus and sp tests for lspi and these oils are specifically formulated to suppress lspi which is the number 1 killer of small displacement turbo engines. This is why youll see most all small displacement turbo engines manufacturer specs aligned with
m1 0w30 afe. And youll see the manufacturers v6 engine oil specs in line with the ESP which is the old acea c3 which is like api sn.

ACEA A7 / B7 would be similar spec for small displacement turbo engines that the API SP is. Thats like the m1 afe.


The m1 ESP is ACEA C3 is similar to the old API SN and has no lspi testing requirement.

Euro oil has manufacturer specs like MB VW and Porsche that has to meet way more stringent requirements than any API SP or SN plus. API test for timing chain wear on engines that don’t have chain issues. I’m just going by what the knowledgeable people on here say that are experts in the oil testing. Everywhere outside of USA don’t use API rated oil. It’s pretty much all ACEA.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Car has 213,000 miles on it. Definitely long term and I do siphon out a couple of quarts and replace every 4,000 miles. Central Kansas weather . Change CVT fluid every 10-15000 miles

Change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles. Your engine will thank you later. That’s a good idea too to change CVT fluid 15,000 miles.

 

[bhvrdr]

Euro oil has manufacturer specs like MB VW and Porsche that has to meet way more stringent requirements than any API SP or SN plus. API test for timing chain wear on engines that don’t have chain issues. I’m just going by what the knowledgeable people on here say that are experts in the oil testing. Everywhere outside of USA don’t use API rated oil. It’s pretty much all ACEA.

I doubt anyone on here said acea c3 (a very old cert) has any lspi testing in it.... because it doesn't and neither do any of the manufacturer certs that go with the m1 0w30 esp. its great for larger displacement engines. The M1 0w30 afe does meet the latest lspi testing including even sp resource conserving and is perfect for small displacement turbo charged engines.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I doubt anyone on here said acea c3 (a very old cert) has any lspi testing in it.... because it doesn't and neither do any of the manufacturer certs that go with the m1 0w30 esp. its great for larger displacement engines. The M1 0w30 afe does meet the latest lspi testing including even sp resource conserving and is perfect for small displacement turbo charged engines.

How is a HTHS of 2.9 better than a HTHS of 3.5.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I doubt anyone on here said acea c3 (a very old cert) has any lspi testing in it.... because it doesn't and neither do any of the manufacturer certs that go with the m1 0w30 esp. its great for larger displacement engines. The M1 0w30 afe does meet the latest lspi testing including even sp resource conserving and is perfect for small displacement turbo charged engines.

MB 229.52 has LSPI testing.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I doubt anyone on here said acea c3 (a very old cert) has any lspi testing in it.... because it doesn't and neither do any of the manufacturer certs that go with the m1 0w30 esp. its great for larger displacement engines. The M1 0w30 afe does meet the latest lspi testing including even sp resource conserving and is perfect for small displacement turbo charged engines.

With all due respect to you until I see it posted from certain users in here, I’m not buying it.

 

[bhvrdr]

How is a HTHS of 2.9 better than a HTHS of 3.5.

Youve just picked a single attribute of an oil to talk about why its better than another oil. Its simply an impossible question to answer. Is hths of 6 better than 3? Its about the overall oil and what application its best for not better or worse in this case.

The m1 0w30 afe is specifically formulated with low calcium to mitigate lspi which is the number one killer of small displacement turbo engines as ive said.

The m1 0w30 esp has plenty of calcium and will motigate lspi and would be great for larger displacement engines.


But they make this easy. Look at the manufacturer certifications each oil carries. Now look at your cars certifications. You'll notice your new small displacement turbo charged car will match the certifications of m1 0w30 afe. Putting esp in would void the warranty on most new small displacement turbo cars. Your old large displacement engine will meet the esp specs. Easy stuff if you dont want to dig deeper into each oil.

 

[bhvrdr]

Dude. Who gives a **** about LSPI. I have never in the 2 years at Honda as a tech seen or even heard of Honda having LSPI. Either ford or any other manufacturer I have worked for.

Hopefully anyone with a small displacement turbo charged engine as I've said three times now as its the number one killer of them.

If youve never seen issues from it itd be because you were either somehow very lucky or like most misdiagnosed old failure causes.

Btw funny enough bith ford and Honda now REQUIRE an lspi testing oil in their small displacement turbo engines so lets take their word for it not our anecdotal experiences right

But our anecdotal experiences are just that and doesn't change the fact lspi exists and is the number one killer of small displacement turbo engines...

...and that the m1 afe mitigates against this with around 1000 ca and 800 mg while the old m1 esp does not with around 1700ca and 15mg


Like i said a mechanic is not expected to know all of this.

They make it easy. Lets take your ford small displacement eco boost engine example. The manufacturers service book requires a 0w30 or 5w30 that meeets WSS-M2C961-A1.

So then you go to the oil aisle and look for the viscosity oil that meets WSS-M2C961-A1.


then you pick out and pay for the one that does meet it.

I told you it was easy.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Youve just picked a single attribute of an oil to talk about why its better than another oil. Its simply an impossible question to answer. Is hths of 6 better than 3? Its about the overall oil and what application its best for not better or worse in this case.

The m1 0w30 afe is specifically formulated with low calcium to mitigate lspi which is the number one killer of small displacement turbo engines as ive said.

The m1 0w30 esp has plenty of calcium and will motigate lspi and would be great for larger displacement engines.


But they make this easy. Look at the manufacturer certifications each oil carries. Now look at your cars certifications. You'll notice your new small displacement turbo charged car will match the certifications of m1 0w30 afe. Putting esp in would void the warranty on most new small displacement turbo cars. Your old large displacement engine will meet the esp specs. Easy stuff if you dont want to dig deeper into each oil.

No it won’t void the warranty. I use ESP 0w30 in my 2018 Honda accord with 1.5t, have since new. Now with 160,000 miles on it it is still running. You do realize everywhere outside the USA specs ACEA C3 or C2 oil right? Only the USA uses the API and 0w20. 0w20 is only for CAFE.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Youve just picked a single attribute of an oil to talk about why its better than another oil. Its simply an impossible question to answer. Is hths of 6 better than 3? Its about the overall oil and what application its best for not better or worse in this case.

The m1 0w30 afe is specifically formulated with low calcium to mitigate lspi which is the number one killer of small displacement turbo engines as ive said.

The m1 0w30 esp has plenty of calcium and will motigate lspi and would be great for larger displacement engines.


But they make this easy. Look at the manufacturer certifications each oil carries. Now look at your cars certifications. You'll notice your new small displacement turbo charged car will match the certifications of m1 0w30 afe. Putting esp in would void the warranty on most new small displacement turbo cars. Your old large displacement engine will meet the esp specs. Easy stuff if you dont want to dig deeper into each oil.

I’m more worried about fuel dilution, which is where that esp protect better.

 

[930.engineering]

.
So far approvals such as MB 229.51, 229.52, VW 504 00, 507 00 and Porsche C30
have a good reputation on the forum, while both API SN plus and SP do not have
to the same extent. When it comes to a turbo DI? M1 ESP 5W-30 (and as well as
M1 ESP 0W-30) anytime! Smaller or bigger displacement? Absolutely regardless.
.

 

[bhvrdr]

No it won’t void the warranty. I use ESP 0w30 in my 2018 Honda accord with 1.5t, have since new. Now with 160,000 miles on it it is still running. You do realize everywhere outside the USA specs ACEA C3 or C2 oil right? Only the USA uses the API and 0w20. 0w20 is only for CAFE.

As ive already said ACEA A7 / B7 is the comparable to API SP which is what youd want for your small displacement turbo engine. 2018 was the last year before manufacturers started requiring low lspi oils because that is literally when sn plus and acea a7 b7 started. Many manufacturers have even gine back and updated old warranty books.

But yes if you were to go buy a new honda turbo it would require an lspi cert oil and a c3 would indeed be out of warranty compliance.


Here is some good reading on the honda 1.5 turbo...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/suggested-oil-for-2022-honda-civic-si-1-5-l-turbo.351891/

 

[bhvrdr]

.
So far approvals such as MB 229.51, 229.52, VW 504 00, 507 00 and Porsche C30
have a good reputation on the forum, while both API SN plus and SP do not have
to the same extent. When it comes to a turbo DI? M1 ESP 5W-30 (and as well as
M1 ESP 0W-30) anytime! Smaller or bigger displacement? Absolutely regardless.
.

Absolutely none of those certs are meant for small displacement turbo engines and if you have one check your manual and youll see that.

As an example the vw504 is for cars like the audi rs5 v6 while vw508 which has lspi testing is for the Audi 2.0t.

The Porsche c30 is for the old Cayenne. The small displacement turbo porsches require c40 which....you guessed it...has lspi testing requirements in it. C30 does not.

Again just read your manual folks. No need to guess.

ESP has 1700ppm calcium and virtually no magnesium. Its not a lspi mitigating oil.

AFE has under 1000ppm calcium and 650 mg

And this means.....

 

[wpod]

Advanced, AFE, EP, ESP, Euro… There’s so many friggin choices and I know every single one will work with my 5k OCI’s! I be confusing myself whenever I’m looking for oil at Walmart & AutoZone

For most applications Conventional oils will do the job for 5,000 mile oil change intervals.