Data Suggests Driver Error in Toyota Accidents

[Colt]

AUTOS
JULY 13, 2010, 2:21 P.M. E
The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that at the time of the crashes, throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged, people familiar with the findings said.

The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes. But the findings don’t exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html?mod=djemalertNEWS

 

[brianl703]

This suggests that the defective equipment is installed at the dealership and is placed between the seat and steering wheel.

 

[Geo_Prizm]

The woman who cried and said 'shame on you Toyota' at the Congress hearing turned out to be a scammer. All parts of a broader campaign to blemish Toyota's stellar reputation for reliability.

When I hear something negative about Toyota from the media and the government I simply disregard it.



http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/shame-on-you-rhonda-smith/
She (Rhonda Smith) sold the runaway Lexus with stuck gas pedal to another family which put more than 27K miles on the vehicle without a single problem.

 

[Drew99GT]

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Geo_Prizm
The woman who cried and said 'shame on you Toyota' at the Congress hearing turned out to be a scammer. All parts of a broader campaign to blemish Toyota's stellar reputation for reliability.

When I hear something negative about Toyota from the media and the government I simply disregard it.



http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/shame-on-you-rhonda-smith/
She (Rhonda Smith) sold the runaway Lexus with stuck gas pedal to another family which put more than 27K miles on the vehicle without a single problem.


Yeah,I saw her at the hearings crying.
She said divine intervention stopped her speeding Lexus.I say the mat came off the pedal.

 

[Drew99GT]

I am now at defcon 3. Cyber shields are up, flame suit is on, and I am heading for the virtual bunker. Will be trying to avoid verbal shrapnel.

 

[Colt]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-bl...otas-nhtsa-says



Despite ominous news reports of cars careening out of control, there's no substitute for data. And now it looks like many reported cases of so-called "sudden acceleration" in Toyotas are actually due to driver error.

That's the preliminary conclusion coming from investigators at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) who analyzed dozens of event-data recorders, or "black boxes," from Toyota models that had crashed.

Black box: Acceleration, not braking

The recorders showed that despite drivers' claims that they were pressing the brakes as hard as they could, in fact the accelerators were floored and the brakes were never applied.

That is exactly what happened in the March crash of a 2005 Toyota Prius in the New York City suburb of Harrison, N.Y. There, a 56-year-old housekeeper swore she was braking as hard as she could when the car raced across a busy road, slamming into a stone wall.

In that case, the NHTSA statement all but used the words driver error, saying that the car's onboard computer systems "indicated there was no application of the brakes, and the throttle was fully open."

We've seen this before

The latest conclusions, reported by the Wall Street Journal but not officially confirmed by the agency, involved data recorders selected at random by the agency, not Toyota [NYSE:TM].

The NHTSA has not yet issued a formal statement, saying it will wait to complete a longer study before commenting. But the conclusions are not unexpected among auto-safety experts. Few believe that "sudden acceleration" in the Prius or any other car is possible.

Back in 1989, the agency concluded that drivers were also at fault in so-called "sudden acceleration" cases involving Audi 5000 sedans. That was three years after a notorious documentary.

Misfiring neurons

But how can a driver believe she is braking when in fact she has the accelerator floored? The University of California-Los Angeles professor Richard Schmidt, who teaches psychology, writes, "The trouble, unbelievable as it may seem, is that [it] is very often caused by drivers who press the gas pedal when they intend to press the brake."

The culprit is "noisy neuromuscular processes," in which a limb does something slightly different from what the brain has asked it to do. In this case, the driver's foot may extend at a different angle than the body expects.

Compounding the problem

Panic then exacerbates the situation, with drivers pressing even harder on their "brake" pedals. Which of course keeps the accelerator floored and often leads to a crash.

That said, a handful of cases may have been due to oversize or improperly fitted floor mats in Toyota and Lexus vehicles. The company is now working through millions of vehicles to shorten and modify their accelerator pedals to alleviate the potential for such a problem.

That was the conclusion of the investigation into a notorious crash last August, in which a California Highway Patrol officer and three other passengers were killed when their Lexus accelerated out of control, crashed, flipped over, and burned.

That case is the only one out of more than 3,000 complaints in which the NHTSA has concluded the vehicle was at fault.

 

[ekpolk]

...or maybe she managed to pull her foot off the gas pedal.

======================================
Originally Posted By: Geo_Prizm
...
She (Rhonda Smith) sold the runaway Lexus with stuck gas pedal to another family which put more than 27K miles on the vehicle without a single problem.

Yep. That happened because: 1) The folks who bought it know how to drive, and 2) the car had no actual problem in the first place.

And since the good Ms. Smith is into scoldings: Shame on YOU Ms. Smith for selling someone else a car you claimed is fatally defective.

 

[Drew99GT]

Given that someone else (I think it was doodfood) posted another story showing that all other makes and models have statistically similar occurrences of runaway acceleration compared to Toyota, do you guys think the argument can be made that the media singled out Toyota to potentially help the big 3 at a time when they, especially GM, were on the verge of extinction, especially given the medias support for....oh well, I leave it right there!

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Given that someone else (I think it was doodfood) posted another story showing that all other makes and models have statistically similar occurrences of runaway acceleration compared to Toyota, do you guys think the argument can be made that the media singled out Toyota to potentially help the big 3 at a time when they, especially GM, were on the verge of extinction, especially given the medias support for....oh well, I leave it right there!

You think maybe Obama motors helped the media fan the so called Toyota problem flames.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Given that someone else (I think it was doodfood) posted another story showing that all other makes and models have statistically similar occurrences of runaway acceleration compared to Toyota, do you guys think the argument can be made that the media singled out Toyota to potentially help the big 3 at a time when they, especially GM, were on the verge of extinction, especially given the medias support for....oh well, I leave it right there!

You think maybe Obama motors helped the media fan the so called Toyota problem flames.

Whooooooooooooa fella, lets not get this thread locked after only 9 posts!

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Given that someone else (I think it was doodfood) posted another story showing that all other makes and models have statistically similar occurrences of runaway acceleration compared to Toyota, do you guys think the argument can be made that the media singled out Toyota to potentially help the big 3 at a time when they, especially GM, were on the verge of extinction, especially given the medias support for....oh well, I leave it right there!

You think maybe Obama motors helped the media fan the so called Toyota problem flames.

Whooooooooooooa fella, lets not get this thread locked after only 9 posts!

 

[brianl703]

Maybe Toyota drivers are more likely to whine about their unintended acceleration problems to the media?

 

[Geo_Prizm]

Yes, let's not go into politics.I was banned for this subject not long ago.But that does not mean we should turn a blind eye to the fact that GM is owned by the US Government, that makes US Government a competitor of Toyota Motor Co.

 

[01rangerxl]

What a surprise.

What I don't get about people who mix up the gas and brake (save for old people with dementia) is that the two pedals feel completely different, at least in my truck. The pedal feel and resistance is much different. I can tell right away whether I'm hitting the gas or brake. It's kind of hard for me to understand how someone could floor the gas and think they are hitting the brake.

Then of course there is fraud... Sudden acceleration was an easy bandwagon to jump on.

I think there may be a legitimate issue with the computer programming in some vehicles that could possibly cause an "unintended acceleration," and I do think that should be investigated. However, I'm sure many cases are just either stupid owners or dishonest owners.

 

[JimPghPA]

Is the data being recorded in the Toyotas in question being recorded by the same system that controls the engine?

If so, is it not possible that an error recognizing the brake signal is being processed as full throttle (and that would cause sudden acceleration, and at the same time the system would record full throttle).

Until vehicles have a COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT throttle plate system that restricts engine air intake to that of high idle EVERY TIME the brake is engaged, and/or a COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT system that limits engine RPM EVERY TIME the brake is engaged, I will not 100 percent believe that the vehicle is not at fault.

Otherwise what we are being asked to believe is that someone says a vehicles control system malfunctioned in a life threatening way, yet we are to believe the malfunction never happened because the vehicles system (the same system someone said malfunctioned) says it never happened.

I think in legal terms that once the source of information is tainted in any way the source is no longer considered reliable. Why should be believe any information from a system that is suspected as the system that went hay-wire to the point that it caused a life threatening problem in the first place.

Any preventative measure to insure that sudden acceleration never can happen MUST by the very nature of the problem be completely independent in ALL components used in it.

And any monitoring system that is to be believed MUST be completely independent in ALL components used in it.

 

[eljefino]

If a drive-by-wire computer SINCERELY BELIEVES it should be at WOT, that's what it's going to tell the crash black box as well.

When this whole thing hit the news six months ago there was a reasonable consensus that a red fuel/spark kill switch, activated by hand, could not hinder and could only help. Skip the computer subroutines.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Given that someone else (I think it was doodfood) posted another story showing that all other makes and models have statistically similar occurrences of runaway acceleration compared to Toyota, do you guys think the argument can be made that the media singled out Toyota to potentially help the big 3 at a time when they, especially GM, were on the verge of extinction, especially given the medias support for....oh well, I leave it right there!

You think maybe Obama motors helped the media fan the so called Toyota problem flames.

Where can I get a tin foil hat as pretty as yours??

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Given that someone else (I think it was doodfood) posted another story showing that all other makes and models have statistically similar occurrences of runaway acceleration compared to Toyota, do you guys think the argument can be made that the media singled out Toyota to potentially help the big 3 at a time when they, especially GM, were on the verge of extinction, especially given the medias support for....oh well, I leave it right there!

You think maybe Obama motors helped the media fan the so called Toyota problem flames.

Where can I get a tin foil hat as pretty as yours??


In your bedroom closet next to your Chevy hat.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Well we have gone to insulting others in this thread...

Any comments PM me.