Regulators slam Toyota over 'no defect' claim

[friendly_jacek]

Interesting info from http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-unintended-acceleration-or-sticky-floor-mats/
post in the middle of the page:

Quote:
there is a glitch with these toyotas/lexi with the throttle by wire system. i’m a smog tech out in california and trying to smog these things on the dyno is a real bear. there’s an online smog tech forum to which i belong and it’s a well know fact that there is some sort of glitch, most likely related to the throttle by wire system.

the problem i see is with the car on the dyno, (tc disabled if applicable,) and it’s very near impossible to keep the car at a steady speed. california smog requires the smog tech to keep the car at a steady speed and rpm for a certain amount of time and these throttle by wire cars are near impossible; throttle by wire cars by others marques don’t seem to have this problem. the cars speed up and/or slow down on their own even if your right foot is dead steady and doesn’t move. i don’t really know what’s causing this but it is not out of the realm of possibility, (at least for me,) that these things can randomly accelerate/decelerate on their own.

i personally think that the throttle cable was a great thing and am sad to see it’s demise…there’s something a bit unsettling about the idea of the accelerator pedal not being physically connected to the throttle plate.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Some more good posts from the above webpage

Quote:
I wonder if cars equipped with Drive-by-wire, RFID and Start/Stop ignitions shouldn’t be fitted with a fail-safe kill switch. It could be located on the steering column where the ignition key used to go.

Every single motorcycle sold in the US and Canada comes with one, so I’m sure the automakers can figure it out.

If I was an automaker, I’d do it voluntarily without waiting for regulations to force me. I have done some PLC programming and with only a fraction of the variables it can be near impossible to simulate every conceivable failure mode, and just as hard to diagnose them after they’ve occurred. Especially transient events.

I suppose, however, that the inclusion of a kill switch might suggest to your customers that you aren’t sure of your product, so it may be seen as a negative for that reason.


Quote:
I had one incident in a loaner ES350 that wouldn’t stop accelerating.

Fortunately, it was on a quiet city street, so I just stood on the brakes to slow the car and then popped the shifter into neutral.

I realized the gas pedal was caught, but not on the mat. The gas pedal fits in a depression in the floor, and the carpeting in that area was just loose enough to snag it.


Quote:
Definately a problem that I experienced firsthand. Last year while appraising a 2007 Camry I had runaway acceleration that was only stopped by shutting the ignition. Scary as [censored]. I thought it might have been an isolated incident but this thread surely proves that this serious and potentially deadly defect must be addressed by Toyota.


Quote:
This is very similar to what has been reported on some Jeeps, though I don’t know how many unintended acceleration issues are still being reported on them these days. A few years back some newspaper journalists in Salt Lake City got pinned to a wall by a Grand Cherokee experiencing unintended acceleration, so there was obviously quite a bit of local news coverage on the issue. This article published shortly after the incident is interesting, mostly because it points out that the NHTSA doesn’t really follow up on these complaints, which doesn’t make sense to me at all.

Another interesting point in the article I linked to: an independent investigation of the Jeeps suggested that the design of the cruise control made malfunctions involving extreme unintended acceleration a possibility. I wonder if Toyota uses a similar design in their cruise control, and what we’re seeing from Toyota owners is indeed partly the fault of floor mats and partly due to a faulty design of the cruise control or related systems.


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I write software for a living and know no matter how much you test it, there’s always one set one inputs that could cause it to fail. So I have no trust in the infallibility of engine management units.


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In all honesty, it’s quite probable that an electrical (more specifically, electronic) error would cause this sort of thing on a drive-by-wire system. The computer says nothing? Bollocks. Computer diagnostics are completely useless when things really go haywire, you won’t glean any useful information from them. Most dealers rely on the diagnostics to the point that they can’t trace a problem (what do you do when you have 30 error codes from a dozen systems, but only one potential problem? In my case, the mechanic starts replacing redundant things willy-nilly until something changes. True story, I’m afraid.)

Have you ever had a car with malfunctioning electronics? It’s maddening, impossible to figure out, and it will stump even the best mechanic. I’m quite surprised it doesn’t happen more often. It would be safer, imo, to stick to mechanical connections between the pedal and the throttle.


The more I read the more I'm convinced there are problems in addition to the floor mats. I don't think NHTSA tried hard enough to troubleshoot. Maybe they delegated all testing to Toyota?

 

[ls1mike]

How about just a key? All my cars have a key, seems to work just fine. I can turn the Trans Am off whenever I need to and don't need to read a book to do it. I can throw the keys to anyone and chances are they know how to start the car and turn it off.
IMO Just another silly gadget that really isn't needed and causes more headache then a set of keys hanging from the steering column.

At anyrate no matter who is at fault it is too bad people lost their lives.

I spent lots of years on Submarines training and running drills to be prepared for any type of casualty. Fire, flooding, hydraulic and air ruptures you name it anyone of them can take your life in instant when you are in a tube 500 feet underwater.

You hope your training takes over when the real thing happens, but I can speak from experience a lot of things change when it is the real thing and sometime training goes out the window as you try to process the information coming at you and you try to adapt to that specific situation. That is why we train and drill so much that way you know how and when to use the equipment.

I am sure that is what happened to this individual. I doubt he was training everyday on what to do when his new car has run away acelleration, no matter how it happened.

I doubt anyone here trains everyday for any type of car casualty they may encounter. I know I don't.

 

[Steve S]

I got a letter from Toyota today stating to remove the floor mat and soon there will be a TBS and some kind of fix soon. This is for a 2006 Tacoma. Toyotas have really gone down hill.