daimler eCascadia electric truck

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Given thread moves lately, I can guarantee it's in the wrong forum... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/daimler-ecascadia-semi-truck-test-drive/
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The eCascadia is based on the diesel Cascadia from Daimler's Freightliner division, a Class 8 18-wheeler and one of the most popular long-haul trucks currently on the road in North America. By allowing me to take it for a spin, Daimler is making a bold statement that it is out in front (way out in front) of much hyped upstarts like Tesla and Thor. The eCascadia is real, drives like a charm, and is about to undergo actual testing in the U.S. on public roads as Daimler delivers 20 of the vehicles to Penske. With professional truckers behind the wheel running regular routes, Daimler hopes to learn more about how the vehicles handle, endure the rigors of the road, deal with charging and route issues, and manage other factors that can't be accounted for until these trucks are used in the real world.
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Inevitably and predictably, people are going to ask how the Daimler eCascadia compares to the Tesla Semi. Tesla made a big splash in 2017 announcing its plans to make a big rig and taking pre-orders from the likes of Walmart. At the time, Tesla said its tractor trailers would have a heretofore unheard of 500-mile range. But nearly two years later, the Tesla Semi has yet to appear. It's now slated to make an appearance next year.
 

Shannow

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re the tesla, and the Daimler offering...
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The eCascadia has four electric motors (two on each axle) and can deliver up to 730 horsepower. With 550-kilowatt-hour batteries, the truck has a rated range of 250 miles. Daimler says it could be recharged to about 80 percent of full power in 90 minutes (giving it a 200-mile range).
My first engineering principals assessment appears to be pretty close to the mark... https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-500mi-range-1m-mi-guarantee#Post4577295
Originally Posted by Shannow
Here's the tractive effort curves from Cummins... https://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/cummins_secrets_of_better_fuel_economy.pdf [Linked Image] Given the close coupled electric motors, say 200hp for a first approximation...150KW makes the math easier. 500 miles at 60 miles per hour is 8.3 hours...1.25MWh of storage... Six of these...mira alto substation has nearly 400 of these cubicles at 210KWh each... [Linked Image]
 

Shannow

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Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
tesla is going to have real competition, Daimler is coming hard...
Actually with real world engineering rather than Musk's promises that are vaporware… Daimler's recharge rate of 293KW can be handled with stuff that I still wouldn't trust the public with, but I don't see as materially different to the driver unloading a tanker of sulfuric acid. Teslas claimed recharge rate is nearly 3MW...that's a transfer rate that involves HV switching and serious dead time for the truck driver...a guy qualified to do that connection multiple times per day is worth $150k
 
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Around here, the trucks go 75 to 80. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and say only 350 HP is required. That means 350KWH worth of battery consumed. Or 2 hours range/150-160 miles till dead with that 700kwh battery. That's a real game changer....... When conventional, over the road semi trucks go 1500 or even 2000 miles with onboard fuel.
 
I'm thinking the long haul market at highway speeds is totally a red herring. The market probably will be urban roads connecting different parts of the cities where reductions in air polution will be achieved. Think goods deliveriies within LA.
 
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Large trucks are not that inefficient with oil for what they move IMO. All these road values on electric use don't include cabin heat which will bring the range down. Then there is the charging station, not withstanding the dangers involved with switching, where are these going to get their power from? Those wires on telephone poles have limits, so the whole system may need to be redone, A diesel electric hybrid would be more practical and user friendly.
 
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NH
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Large trucks are not that inefficient with oil for what they move IMO. All these road values on electric use don't include cabin heat which will bring the range down. Then there is the charging station, not withstanding the dangers involved with switching, where are these going to get their power from? Those wires on telephone poles have limits, so the whole system may need to be redone, A diesel electric hybrid would be more practical and user friendly.
Yep. I find the electric vehicles to be interesting. Different blend of capabilities. But our infrastructure isn't there. I do wonder if they could just make big diesel gensets to run at large rest stops, so as to charge cars. I'm not sure where an electric semi makes sense. Short haul work, maybe? Seems hard to justify for cross country work. Wonder when they will try for a battery powered locomotive. That should be a fun back of the envelope calculation.
 
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The only possibility I see to make this feasible for long haul is to switch trucks at pre-defined points. Driver runs his segment, gets out and disconnects the trailer. New driver and tractor backs in and hooks up and continues. Something like multiple crews on a military ship.
 
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In order to run 140,000 lbs GVW in Canada, the engine needs to be a minimum of 425 hp. That's the only power requirement. A 13 liter engine can do that easily. Same engine works well at 1,650 ft. lb. of torque at 1100 - 1400 RPM. Newest engines peak torque is down near 1000 RPM. From some of the runs I did at that 140k weight, anything more than that is overkill. High torque at low RPM is a natural for electrics, as for the high HP race, not sure why that matters for Class 8s. Batteries are not are suited for long hauls, just can't store enough energy on the truck and the infrastructure to charge it rapidly is not there, nor will it be cheap to install. Within 100 miles of home base is where I see electrics working well. Which happens to be the grid log cut over (for old school logs).
 
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Originally Posted by Danno
In order to run 140,000 lbs GVW in Canada, the engine needs to be a minimum of 425 hp. That's the only power requirement. A 13 liter engine can do that easily. Same engine works well at 1,650 ft. lb. of torque at 1100 - 1400 RPM. Newest engines peak torque is down near 1000 RPM. From some of the runs I did at that 140k weight, anything more than that is overkill.
Lower HP and torque make for a real long day. It also wears the driver out too. Hauling say 80k with 430 HP vs 250 HP. The constant shifting in the 250 HP truck wears out the driver
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I'm thinking the long haul market at highway speeds is totally a red herring. The market probably will be urban roads connecting different parts of the cities where reductions in air polution will be achieved. Think goods deliveriies within LA.
I was thinking it would work well for cement mixers. They dont go far from home.
 
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Northern Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Danno
In order to run 140,000 lbs GVW in Canada, the engine needs to be a minimum of 425 hp. That's the only power requirement. A 13 liter engine can do that easily. Same engine works well at 1,650 ft. lb. of torque at 1100 - 1400 RPM. Newest engines peak torque is down near 1000 RPM. From some of the runs I did at that 140k weight, anything more than that is overkill.
Lower HP and torque make for a real long day. It also wears the driver out too. Hauling say 80k with 430 HP vs 250 HP. The constant shifting in the 250 HP truck wears out the driver
Latest stats I've seen is that a good majority of Class 8 s go out with automatics now, just for that reduced RSI and lower skills of new hires. All the trucks I bought were automatics, from Class 3 cube vans, 26' box trucks to Class 8 highway tractors. And I bought 100 s per year for our fleet.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted by Chris142
Could they put solar panels on the top of the trailer to help increase the range?
The contribution would be so small I doubt it would be worthwhile. Solar's density is horrifically low.
 
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Michigan
Truckers in the USA are limited to a total 11 hours drive time out of 14 hours on-duty time (including fueling) during a 24-hour day. And during an 8-day period, they can't drive more than 70 hours. In a 14-hour day: 250 miles in 4.2 hours on a full overnight charge. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 200 miles in 3.3 hours. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 200 miles in 3.3 hours. Then the truck has 10.2 hours to get a full charge overnight. That totals 650 miles in 10.8 hours of driving and 3 hours of fueling time to fill up the 14-hour day. But if a trucker is trying to level his 70 hour weekly drive time: In an 8.75 hour day: 250 miles in 4.2 hours on a full charge. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 200 miles in 3.3 hours. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 75 miles in 1.25 hours. That totals 525 miles in 8.75 hours of driving. Both scenarios end up with 4200 miles of driving at the end of the week, so the trucks could keep up the allowable operational tempo. I have done 4000-mile weeks in my Dodge a few times, but require at least two days off before going out again.
 
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San Francisco Bay Area
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Truckers in the USA are limited to a total 11 hours drive time out of 14 hours on-duty time (including fueling) during a 24-hour day. And during an 8-day period, they can't drive more than 70 hours. In a 14-hour day: 250 miles in 4.2 hours on a full overnight charge. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 200 miles in 3.3 hours. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 200 miles in 3.3 hours. Then the truck has 10.2 hours to get a full charge overnight. That totals 650 miles in 10.8 hours of driving and 3 hours of fueling time to fill up the 14-hour day. But if a trucker is trying to level his 70 hour weekly drive time: In an 8.75 hour day: 250 miles in 4.2 hours on a full charge. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 200 miles in 3.3 hours. Fast charge for 1.5 hours. 75 miles in 1.25 hours. That totals 525 miles in 8.75 hours of driving. Both scenarios end up with 4200 miles of driving at the end of the week, so the trucks could keep up the allowable operational tempo. I have done 4000-mile weeks in my Dodge a few times, but require at least two days off before going out again.
There's one last rest area around here, and the truck parking area is often full with sleeper cabs. But there's no parking past a sign. Saw CHP knocking on a sleeper cab way past the sign once. Not sure if the driver got a citation or was told to leave. Has to be tough when a rest break is all planned out but there's no place to legally park. Don't some Wal-Marts allow overnight RVs and truck parking?
 
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