Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Tell me why I should use a FRAM Ultra at $9 when I can get a Motorcraft for under $4? I don't see the FRAM offering more than double the value...
I'd disagree with you overall but it depends on how you apply the equation. Will you run a MC for 15K? Most people wouldn't (though in many cases, I think they could). The value of the differences in filtration efficiency (~94%@20um vs 99%@ 20um) is debatable from the wear perspective but the better efficiency, combined with almost double the capacity (~16g vs 30g in the size I use) allow for up to a safe-n-sane 15K OCI with a good oil. Plus, as you know, there are deals. I picked up a number of XG7317s for $6 and change recently, so if you shop-n-stock when a good opportunity comes, you can find a nice price of the FU.
At the same time, you have a point. If all you are going to do is run a 5-7.5K OCI, a premium filter most certainly is redundant and will not offer a tangible payback. Also, I think in many cases, you can run 10K intervals with a good oil using a MC filter. MC probably wouldn't stand behind you in those cases (unless tht interval was spelled out by the OEM) but doing so would definitely be further increasing the value of a MC filter with minimal risk.
I'll sort of continue my rant from above with this quote here.
Again I agree with Jim.
When it comes to FCIs, and OCIs, most folks just wing it on guestimation and nothing more.
Yes; 15k miles on an Ultra is pretty much an assured thing. But I'd not wince at 15k miles on many filters (excluding uber-cheap ones sourced from unreliable places).
I'd easily go 15k miles on not just an Ultra, but a P1, Wix and even a M/C.
And I'm putting my money where my mouth is ... I recently ran 10k miles on a Purolator Classic. I'm now running up to 15k miles on a FL-400 M/C, along with ST dino oil; I am currently 5k miles into this planned 15k mile OCI.
Further, I not only use my own personal data, but the tens of thousands of UOAs I have in my data base. I see no clear delineation of wear data that shows super-duper filters being "better" in real world use. What we really get with premium filters is a much larger capacity to hold particulate, and therefore the potential for a much longer FCI. Of course, to glean the "potential", it has to be put into reality. If one does not extend the FCI, then the extra money spent on the filter is wasted. Most of you know that I the preach the "ROI" concept on lubes, but it's just as applicable to filters. And, unless I'm wrong here, Jim seems to be acknowledging that concept as well with filters. We all need a filter that is "good enough" to provide some low level of particulate loading for the ensured long life of our equipment. But past that OEM defined level, there exists a very steep law of diminishing return. You can spend a lot more on a filter, and show me lab tests that exude fantastic filtration, but unless you use that filter (in the field) to a point PAST where a NORMAL filter would fail, then it's moot. The real world wear data simply shows this as factual. Premium filters do NOT return statistically significant wear shifts unless you use them to a point where their advantage actually usurps the lesser alternative. For premium filters to excel past a normal filter, you have to greatly extend the FCI past where the normal filter fails. And that point is typically further than most folks are willing to accept and admit.
Some folks see this as heresy, but I'm here to break down myths with real data, and let the bench racers sit content with there dogma.
This filtration topic is very much sensitive to the individual situation, just as with lubes. You have to be able to clearly define control parameters, condemnation points, and then accurately track measurables to declare success or failure.
It is obviously possible that some "dirty" running engines, with poor mechanical conditions, are not candidates for longer OCIs/FCIs. But there are also engines that run clean, are well cared for, and can blow way past the hyper-conservative approach most BITOGers take with their 5k mile M1 lubed, PureOne filtered grocery getters.
I understand why this filter was taken off at 5k miles; it was for comparative purposes. That's OK for the stated purpose. But in general, to use an Ultra (or M1, or PureOne, etc) at 5k miles and then toss it out is a total and complete waste. And on top of that, you don't get "better" wear protection from it.
