Cruze Diesel hitting dealer lots

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
I think diesel gas is too expensive around here anyway. The fuel savings is not as great to make it worth it-


You have to look at the fuel economy difference. Example. My Jeep Liberty Diesel will get 32 mpg highway consistently. Never below 26 mpg for all miles. Now the gasser Jeep Liberty is lucky to hit 21 on a road trip, or around 15-16 for all miles. So, my Liberty is getting, at a minimum, 30% better fuel economy. For around me now, diesel is 3.68 while gasoline is 3.38. A 30 cent difference. The cost per mile to run my diesel, based on highway mpg's mentioned, at these prices is roughly 12 cents. For a similar gas version, it would be 16 cents a mile. So could you clue us in again how the fuel saving are not that great to make it worth it?


If the diesel Liberty cost you ~$5k more (not unheard of for a diesel or hybrid engine upgrade), it takes you 125k miles to break even! That's what generally makes it not worth it.
If its only a $2k premium for the diesel engine, then only 50k miles to break even.
. Very true. I just broke even on my diesel ($1500 premium over gas equivalent) 48k miles. In all likelihood I broke even sooner but it's hard to gauge.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Yep, the days of only the stick for mileage are over with the 6 and 8 and even more speeds out there in autos.

And torque management is wildly varied by platform. The 6L90 heavy duty 3500 chassis trans drives NOTHING like a 1500 model despite being virtually the same box. Pure programming, and we all know how easy it is to get a canned tune and tweak the shift points, etc!

I'm sure the aftermarket will be all over it just like the little turbo gas powered Cruze!


PM sent

A bit off topic, how are the new GM 6speeds in the express/Savannah vans? I've got a friend who owns a plumbing company and has a fleet of the 2500 4.8l with the 4L60 and all of them have had the transmission replaced before 80k miles. Even with fluid changes every 30k, they don't seem to last. Do the 6 speeds hold up better? He is thinking of switching to Fords just because they seem to have less tranny issues. Thoughts?

 

[rrounds]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
I think diesel gas is too expensive around here anyway. The fuel savings is not as great to make it worth it-


You have to look at the fuel economy difference. Example. My Jeep Liberty Diesel will get 32 mpg highway consistently. Never below 26 mpg for all miles. Now the gasser Jeep Liberty is lucky to hit 21 on a road trip, or around 15-16 for all miles. So, my Liberty is getting, at a minimum, 30% better fuel economy. For around me now, diesel is 3.68 while gasoline is 3.38. A 30 cent difference. The cost per mile to run my diesel, based on highway mpg's mentioned, at these prices is roughly 12 cents. For a similar gas version, it would be 16 cents a mile. So could you clue us in again how the fuel saving are not that great to make it worth it?


If the diesel Liberty cost you ~$5k more (not unheard of for a diesel or hybrid engine upgrade), it takes you 125k miles to break even! That's what generally makes it not worth it.
If its only a $2k premium for the diesel engine, then only 50k miles to break even.
. Very true. I just broke even on my diesel ($1500 premium over gas equivalent) 48k miles. In all likelihood I broke even sooner but it's hard to gauge.


I bet your resale price is a lot higher on the diesel with 100k + miles over a equally high mileage gas Jeep.

 

[rescueswimmer]

I figured I'd jump in here. I have a 14 Cruze D with just over 3k on the odometer. The wife drives it mostly back and forth to work about 50 miles each way. Mostly during rush hour traffic. She has been averaging about 44 MPG during those commutes. We have taken it for a road trip and playing around with the speed and cruze control. I was able to get 56 MGP at the pump, with an average speed of about 63 MPH. Most of the trip I had the cruze set at 75 MPH and I was averaging 46 MPG at the pump over the 600 miles we went. Very easy to exceed the EPA numbers, with this car. I'm hoping as the D gets some mileage she loosens up a little. With the extra curb weight you really don't notice it starting and stopping with the D, but you do notice your fuel economy going to [censored], that is for sure. If your a stop and go driver the 6MT eco would be the way to go. Hwy driver the D is hard to beat so far. Now I need to find some Oil once the 2 years of free Maintenance is over with. Any recommendations so far.

 

[artificialist]

Rescueswimmer, how much DEF have you needed to use in the Cruze diesel? You would have to add that to your fuel consumption to get true efficiency numbers.

 

[FXjohn]

on the other hand it seems like the gas cruze eco gets very good mileage and it's cheaper

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Rescueswimmer, how much DEF have you needed to use in the Cruze diesel? You would have to add that to your fuel consumption to get true efficiency numbers.


I'd be surprised if he used more than a pint. DEF is cheap. $14/2.5 gal. I doubt his takes much more than that since that's about half of what my car takes and it's a 6 cylinder.

 

[rescueswimmer]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
on the other hand it seems like the gas cruze eco gets very good mileage and it's cheaper


Not really sure the DEF tank is 4.5 gallons and its supposed to last about 10k miles before needing to be refilled.

 

[rescueswimmer]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
on the other hand it seems like the gas cruze eco gets very good mileage and it's cheaper


I went back and forth with this for a little while. The eco is cheaper it also does not have allot of the bells and whistles you get with the Diesel The Diesel is the 2LT trim package with the Diesel engine. The Eco owners with the stick usually average around 40-44MPG with some Hypermilers closer to 50. You will never save enough gas with the diesel over the Eco to justify the cost. Were I figured I would come out better off than with the eco. 1. Its a nicer car interior, and it has allot more noticeable power and torque when driving with a car full of people. The wife drives about 30K miles a year so I'm going to save more at the pump than most drivers. Finally statistically Diesel cars have a better resale than gas. The Cruze already looks to not have a stellar resale value so I'm hoping this will help when I get rid of it close to 180K miles. The car also handles and drives different than the other models, Since it is heavier, they gave it larger breaks tires, and tightened up the steering "to give it a more European feal" according to GM. So far I'm happy with our purchase. Just not thrilled with GM's Quality control.

 

[morepwr]

Rescueswimmer, welcome to the site! Keep us updated on your Cruze as time goes by and you get more miles on that engine.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: rescueswimmer
You will never save enough gas with the diesel over the Eco to justify the cost.


Only true if you don't plan on keeping it for a long time.

My 2003 VW Golf TDI has an average resale value that is easily $2.500 more than the gas model. This is basically the difference between gas and diesel model when new. The mileage gain is more than offset the higher diesel fuel cost. Plus, there is less maintenance required on the diesel model. I speak from experience with over 290K miles on my car.

 

[rescueswimmer]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: rescueswimmer
You will never save enough gas with the diesel over the Eco to justify the cost.


Only true if you don't plan on keeping it for a long time.



I was just going with the average driver who drives 20k miles a year and gets a new car in 5 or 6 years, will see very little benefit in gas savings from the ECO to the Diesel, I estimate that I'll save about 2k over the life of the car (compared to the eco) around 4k compared to any other Cruze, if she gets me to around 200k miles.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
And almost 3500 pounds, too.
2500 pounds with 150 hp would almost be fun. I could see pumping the diesel up to 200 hp and doing suspension mods to make an economical track car. (What the heck, in Europe, VW sells a GT diesel version of the Golf.)
But with the car weighing 3500 pounds, there's just not a lot of fun to be had.


The Cruze TDI is 300+ pounds heavier than the Jetta TDI.

The Volkwagen GTD -- GTI with a 170 hp TDI engine -- will be coming to America in model year 2015. It is supposed to be 200 pounds lighter than the current generation of Golf TDI, so somewhere around 2800 pounds. It should be a lot of fun to drive, in addition to being very fuel efficient.

 

[whizbyu]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: spiderbypass
The Honda Civic hybrid with a 1.6 diesel engine gets about 65 miles per gallon in India. It is ridiculous there are not more diesel engines here in United States; Especially for small SUVs and smaller pickup trucks; Actually all passenger cars should have a diesel option.


There's a few reasons, one being consumers. So many people.. you say they should get a diesel powered car and they say: "but they stink and the fuel costs more!"

Much like the problem with 4cyls.. a lot of people won't go near them because they think they "aren't powerful enough". I had a 91 Corolla with over 150k miles on the 1.6L 4AFE (16V DOHC fuel injected) and I had it up to 80mph once on accident. I was on a long stretch of interstate and finally looked down at my speedometer. I dropped back to 70 immediately... haha. The car was far from straining at 80mph. It could have gone up to 90, if not 100 before it would have really been straining.

Combine diesel and 4cyl and you have an almost impossible product to sell in the US to average consumers. Sure, there's the Cummins 4BT widely used in delivery trucks in the US but that's not the average, everyday consumer market.

I'd love to put a Cummins 4BT in my motorhome in place of the 360 but the TF A727 tranny might also have to be swapped. Plus the thousands of dollars to swap isn't worth it hardly unless the existing engine goes bad.


I have a 2005 VW Passat TDi with 237,000 miles on it. This is a 4 cylinder diesel that will out accelerate most 4 cylinder gas powered cars. To say that 4 cylinder diesels are weak is rubbish. That is the statement that BigOil wants to use to steer people away from diesel here in the US. It is about self preservation. Why would BigGov allow Honda to sell their diesel hyrids here in the US? BigOil tells BigGov "NO" and all the restrictions go up. BigOil wants you, the consumer, to keep using gasoline. There are so many "experts" out there who say that current diesel fuel quality is so much better and more difficult to refine and that explains the extra cost. I don't buy it.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
It looks like the diesel will only come with the auto.

And it's porky at 3475 pounds


OMG! This is more than RAV4. I thought Cruse was compact car?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: spiderbypass
The Honda Civic hybrid with a 1.6 diesel


There is no such a car. There is 1.6L diesel civic though.

 

[Rico567]

Originally Posted By: rescueswimmer
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: rescueswimmer
You will never save enough gas with the diesel over the Eco to justify the cost.


Only true if you don't plan on keeping it for a long time.



I was just going with the average driver who drives 20k miles a year and gets a new car in 5 or 6 years, will see very little benefit in gas savings from the ECO to the Diesel, I estimate that I'll save about 2k over the life of the car (compared to the eco) around 4k compared to any other Cruze, if she gets me to around 200k miles.


So I guess we can add to the things that government is lying to us about their statement that a savings of $4-6K can be realized over the life of diesel ownership, ceteris paribus.

And we did open our checkbook on July 6th and finally bought a new car, after comparing and test driving many. It's a VW Passat TDI.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Rico567

So I guess we can add to the things that government is lying to us about their statement that a savings of $4-6K can be realized over the life of diesel ownership, ceteris paribus.


Governments always lie. The problem is with gullible people.

As for diesel, it depends on local diesel prices. In my area, there is a huge premium on diesel and few stations.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
As for diesel, it depends on local diesel prices. In my area, there is a huge premium on diesel and few stations.


Fuel costs are rarely the auto owner's biggest expense. Depreciation is probably the biggest cost, followed by maintenance and repairs. Insurance might even be a bigger expense than fuel, for a high percentage of drivers.

Diesel cars depreciate more slowly than gas-powered cars. This has been true for decades; people will still pay good money for a 30-year-old Mercedes diesel, even if it has a lot of rust, but not for the identical vehicle with a gas engine.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
As for diesel, it depends on local diesel prices. In my area, there is a huge premium on diesel and few stations.


Fuel costs are rarely the auto owner's biggest expense. Depreciation is probably the biggest cost, followed by maintenance and repairs. Insurance might even be a bigger expense than fuel, for a high percentage of drivers.


You have some good points here, but it really depends how much you drive and how long you want to keep the car.

Even if one drives just 15,000 miles/year, at current gas prices and 25 MPG, we are talking over $20,000 in fuel cost in 10 years. That is a lot and it can be more than depreciation in many if not most cases.