Wow, you guys have crossed off a lot of stuff that I have on the current cars. Most newer cars now have start/stop as standard. Lots of previous V6 cars have gone to 4 cylinder turbo's due to CAFE. I have keyless go and it's one of the nicer things about the car. It's only failure is you look a little stupid when it doesn't work because the phone will block the signal so then you have to fish the key out so it can be sensed by the car which defeats the purpose of it a little. Not worried about it being easier to steal, that's what auto insurance is for. It's not that simple and if a thief can figure out how to do it, they're welcome to the car. Sorta like having deadbolts on your house, they can be picked, but it's just a suggestion to keep most honest folk out, if they really want in, they'll get in. I guess Mercedes does get some props for not being able to check the transmission fluid. You have to buy a special dipstick and the dipstick works on multiple cars so it doesn't even go in all the way so you can't even leave it in afterwards. They also have a cap with a factory seal so the jiffy lube guys don't mess with it, not that I take it to jiffy lube. Same thing with GDI, pretty common now. Basically to fit most of the criteria mentioned, you'd have to back to a car made at least 5-10 years ago.
Cross it off the list
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A CVT with a low output motor has to be not very good to drive. However a higher output motor paired with a CVT transmission does do a whole lot better. My 3.5 VQ with the xtronic CVT does very well.
I will say the start stop set ups are trifling to a large degree. If they just made it to where the period of time before it kicks off the motor was a fair amount longer it would be much better in my opinion.
I will say the start stop set ups are trifling to a large degree. If they just made it to where the period of time before it kicks off the motor was a fair amount longer it would be much better in my opinion.
Variable Cylinder Management and Start-Stop are the two I won't touch. The other part of the question are the brands. I'm soured against the Big 2 and Fiat. I just won't touch. I prefer Japanese brands and in particular vehicles assembled in Japan though that is becoming scarce.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
A CVT with a low output motor has to be not very good to drive. However a higher output motor paired with a CVT transmission does do a whole lot better. My 3.5 VQ with the xtronic CVT does very well.
I will say the start stop set ups are trifling to a large degree. If they just made it to where the period of time before it kicks off the motor was a fair amount longer it would be much better in my opinion.
There is some truth in that as far as my experience goes. I drove a cvt with a 2.5 4 cyl and it was not too bad but another vehicle with a much smaller engine was totally gutless. The newer cvt have improved some on passing and such but that delay is still there and it's dangerous imo.
A CVT with a low output motor has to be not very good to drive. However a higher output motor paired with a CVT transmission does do a whole lot better. My 3.5 VQ with the xtronic CVT does very well.
I will say the start stop set ups are trifling to a large degree. If they just made it to where the period of time before it kicks off the motor was a fair amount longer it would be much better in my opinion.
There is some truth in that as far as my experience goes. I drove a cvt with a 2.5 4 cyl and it was not too bad but another vehicle with a much smaller engine was totally gutless. The newer cvt have improved some on passing and such but that delay is still there and it's dangerous imo.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: bbhero
A CVT with a low output motor has to be not very good to drive. However a higher output motor paired with a CVT transmission does do a whole lot better. My 3.5 VQ with the xtronic CVT does very well.
I will say the start stop set ups are trifling to a large degree. If they just made it to where the period of time before it kicks off the motor was a fair amount longer it would be much better in my opinion.
There is some truth in that as far as my experience goes. I drove a cvt with a 2.5 4 cyl and it was not too bad but another vehicle with a much smaller engine was totally gutless. The newer cvt have improved some on passing and such but that delay is still there and it's dangerous imo.
Being gutless is probably more a function of a wimpy engine on an ecobox. CVT's don't seem to do that well on more powerful engines. They're getting a little crazy on the number of gears on a regular car though, Mercedes now has 9 speed transmissions. Eventually there will be so many that it mind as well be a CVT.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
A CVT with a low output motor has to be not very good to drive. However a higher output motor paired with a CVT transmission does do a whole lot better. My 3.5 VQ with the xtronic CVT does very well.
I will say the start stop set ups are trifling to a large degree. If they just made it to where the period of time before it kicks off the motor was a fair amount longer it would be much better in my opinion.
There is some truth in that as far as my experience goes. I drove a cvt with a 2.5 4 cyl and it was not too bad but another vehicle with a much smaller engine was totally gutless. The newer cvt have improved some on passing and such but that delay is still there and it's dangerous imo.
Being gutless is probably more a function of a wimpy engine on an ecobox. CVT's don't seem to do that well on more powerful engines. They're getting a little crazy on the number of gears on a regular car though, Mercedes now has 9 speed transmissions. Eventually there will be so many that it mind as well be a CVT.
I will say clearly and unequivocally that my car will get up and haul rear end really well. At cruising speed say 65 mph and I get into the throttle it will get up and roll very well. Trust me when I say that those who have challenged me doing certain things on the highway have found out they can't trap me behind a slower vehicle by trying to out accelerate me to a spot. They don't win at that.
Having said that I can easily see where a CVT paired with a 1.8 liter motor has to be a terrible combination. Yes, the motor is not much help. Granted. But today's 1.8 motors generally have more power than they did 15-20 yrs ago.
Having said that I can easily see where a CVT paired with a 1.8 liter motor has to be a terrible combination. Yes, the motor is not much help. Granted. But today's 1.8 motors generally have more power than they did 15-20 yrs ago.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.
Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.
Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
Because it teaches you where the technology came from and that even with all these fancy computers it's still about S.B.B. and Fuel/Air/Spark.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.
Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.
Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
Because it teaches you where the technology came from and that even with all these fancy computers it's still about S.B.B. and Fuel/Air/Spark.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.
Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.
Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
Because it teaches you where the technology came from and that even with all these fancy computers it's still about S.B.B. and Fuel/Air/Spark.
We can disagree. Useless to know these days. There is nothing one can do on a modern automobile (short of a custom computer tune-which the average owner isn't going to do) that will affect fuel/air/spark.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.
Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.
Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
Because it teaches you where the technology came from and that even with all these fancy computers it's still about S.B.B. and Fuel/Air/Spark.
We can disagree. Useless to know these days. There is nothing one can do on a modern automobile (short of a custom computer tune-which the average owner isn't going to do) that will affect fuel/air/spark.
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You can muck with sensors inputs to the computer by mucking with resistance and voltages. It can be tuned, just in a new way!
PimTac there is really hardly any real delay with my car. It is actually better the faster you are going. It's "slower" at say 35 mph cruising speed then say 60 mph. I find my car is more responsive at 60 mph. Though I had a fun encounter with a Porsche Cayenne.. Leaving a stoplight from my road onto 199. Two lanes with another lane blending in as well that eventually blend into a single lane at the end to merge onto 199. I'm on the left lane front row, Cayenne on the outside of me... We take off kinda hard but not too hard. I get hammer down 1st time and that cat did the same thing.. So I went very hammer down 2nd time and so did that champion. Let's just say that they couldn't drive around me and had to fall in line behind me. We we're both going over 80 mph at the end of the part where 3 lanes merged into one. And that happens before that lane even opens up to merge onto 199. I was well pleased by that performance. And I bet the Cayenne driver was a bit surprised as well. It was fun.
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Originally Posted By: CKN
We can disagree. Useless to know these days. There is nothing one can do on a modern automobile (short of a custom computer tune-which the average owner isn't going to do) that will affect fuel/air/spark.
Sure helps with old boats though
Sometimes the applicability isn't direct.
We can disagree. Useless to know these days. There is nothing one can do on a modern automobile (short of a custom computer tune-which the average owner isn't going to do) that will affect fuel/air/spark.
Sure helps with old boats though
Sometimes the applicability isn't direct.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.
Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.
Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
Because it teaches you where the technology came from and that even with all these fancy computers it's still about S.B.B. and Fuel/Air/Spark.
I'm going to have to agree that it's a useless thing to know. I had a car with a carburetor at one point too, even had a mechanic rebuild it for me once. But never had to know about points/condensers. Tune up was basically replacing the cap and rotor. It's probably more important these days to know how to use an OBDII scanner and to research trouble codes.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.
Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.
Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
Because it teaches you where the technology came from and that even with all these fancy computers it's still about S.B.B. and Fuel/Air/Spark.
I'm going to have to agree that it's a useless thing to know. I had a car with a carburetor at one point too, even had a mechanic rebuild it for me once. But never had to know about points/condensers. Tune up was basically replacing the cap and rotor. It's probably more important these days to know how to use an OBDII scanner and to research trouble codes.
For me pretty much CVT's. I know they've come a long way, I just don't care for them. MDS isn't my favorite either. The Ram has it though, I just disable it Everytime I drive it.
Stop/start is the only thing I actively avoid on new cars. Drives me crazy.
Originally Posted By: hpb
Stop/start is the only thing I actively avoid on new cars. Drives me crazy.
I will never, ever own a car with that feature; having spent a week in a rental with it in SF and wine country several months ago. The feature itself is maddening, and then you add the cost and added complexity into the analysis and it's just stupid.
Stop/start is the only thing I actively avoid on new cars. Drives me crazy.
I will never, ever own a car with that feature; having spent a week in a rental with it in SF and wine country several months ago. The feature itself is maddening, and then you add the cost and added complexity into the analysis and it's just stupid.
Timing belt
Manual tranny
Old style (4 speed) auto tranny
Leather
Manual tranny
Old style (4 speed) auto tranny
Leather
Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: hpb
Stop/start is the only thing I actively avoid on new cars. Drives me crazy.
I will never, ever own a car with that feature; having spent a week in a rental with it in SF and wine country several months ago. The feature itself is maddening, and then you add the cost and added complexity into the analysis and it's just stupid.
I believe the cost is minimal. I think they had to have it set up so that it can't be shut off permanently so they can get their EPA gas numbers down. Seems to be a pretty common feature in most late model cars. Had it on a rental once and while it was a little disconcerting at first, I got used to it.
Originally Posted By: hpb
Stop/start is the only thing I actively avoid on new cars. Drives me crazy.
I will never, ever own a car with that feature; having spent a week in a rental with it in SF and wine country several months ago. The feature itself is maddening, and then you add the cost and added complexity into the analysis and it's just stupid.
I believe the cost is minimal. I think they had to have it set up so that it can't be shut off permanently so they can get their EPA gas numbers down. Seems to be a pretty common feature in most late model cars. Had it on a rental once and while it was a little disconcerting at first, I got used to it.
Ford's implementation of DCT. After driving a rental 2017 Ford Focus for two weeks I can definitely say that I will not buy a Ford with this transmission. Excessively slips the clutch, every single gear. Horrible is the best I can describe it.
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