Cross it off the list

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This thread fits right in with the general overall dislike of anything newer on this this board.

For many of you, you will shortly be relegated to buying used only with the list of won't buys...

In the meantime, having recently been back to driving a truck 20 years older than mine, I was very much reminded of how while yes, it got the job done, how much easier and more capable my current truck is - all while keeping me way more comfortable, better safety features, and getting over 30% better fuel mileage - with its GDI Turbo power auto start/stop platform even. The horror...

Times change.
 
- 4 Cylinders
- CVT's
- Uncomfortable seats
- Lack of sufficient creature comforts like heated seats and wheel, climate control...etc.
- Lack of on-board GPS and large screen
- FWD
- Poor headlights
- Overly busy/complex infotainment
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
This thread fits right in with the general overall dislike of anything newer on this this board.

For many of you, you will shortly be relegated to buying used only with the list of won't buys...

In the meantime, having recently been back to driving a truck 20 years older than mine, I was very much reminded of how while yes, it got the job done, how much easier and more capable my current truck is - all while keeping me way more comfortable, better safety features, and getting over 30% better fuel mileage - with its GDI Turbo power auto start/stop platform even. The horror...

Times change.


That's right. And I don't necessarily believe it's "tech phobia" as much as it is of taking the "inner workings" of vehicles out of the "back yard shade tree mechanic". As vehicles become increasingly more advanced-one needs specialized diagnostic tools, special tools to work on them, and continuing education. This is what I believe the issues are.

The old beliefs die hard. For example-there isn't any reason what one needs a dipstick in today's automatic transmission. We all know "from the old days" that the only way your transmission is "using fluid" is if it leaks. The only reason for a dipstick these days is to be able to fill the transmission in a "driveway transmission service". The dealers and professionals have the special machine needed to fill the transmission underneath-or through the cooling lines.

Yea-a driveway mechanic can drain through the cooling line-with the peril of getting fluid all over the place and not having an accurate measurement for replacement fluid.

It's ironic the favorite car ( Civilian version of the Crown Vic) of BITOG ceased to be manufactured on Sept 15th, 2011.
 
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33.gif
Don't need a dipstick. Whatever...

How about people that tow?

How about to check the fluid condition / level?

How about to diagnose problems before they are catastrophic?

It costs hardly anything!
 
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Also, please don't lump me in with the luddites. Turbos, automatics, and AWD aren't deal-breakers to me because of their complexity or whatever. They're dealbreakers because they interfere with what I like about driving.

Completely agree that the technophobia here is unwarranted. Cars today break LESS than they used to, on average. Some have gotten better while others have gotten worse, but the general trend is upward. They just have different problems. You'll never get the right idea by just zooming in on one kind of potential problem. You have to look at the total picture. Yeah, a new car will have problems an old one won't. But the reverse is also true, and in general -- again, with some exceptions -- the balance is in favor of the newer car.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC


It costs hardly anything!


I don't think it is about cost but rather the transition to proprietary fluids that are very transmission-specific and the propensity for over-fills by people who don't read the manual and check it in the Walmart parking lot then dump in a quart of whatever the cheapest Dexron III is on the shelf, then complain when it poops the bed.

IMHO, It started with the electronically controlled Chrysler transmission that required ATF +3 and so many people killed them using everything but that in them....
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
33.gif
Don't need a dipstick. Whatever...

How about people that tow?

How about to check the fluid condition / level?

How about to diagnose problems before they are catastrophic?

It costs hardly anything!


I towed a 5,500 pound travel from Salt Lake City to the East Coast and back. At 50,000 miles (under "severe service" schedule of the owner's manual) I changed the transmission fluid. So half of those 50,000 miles (took other trips as well) were towing in my 2011 Silverado half-ton with the 6 speed auto and 5.3.

The fluid still looked nice and red-but I changed it because of the "towing" you mentioned.

Where's the problem?????

Transmissions issues these days are non-existent- (generally) except in much higher millage vehicles. As I mentioned you don't need to check the level in a SEALED UNIT.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: StevieC


It costs hardly anything!


I don't think it is about cost but rather the transition to proprietary fluids that are very transmission-specific and the propensity for over-fills by people who don't read the manual and check it in the Walmart parking lot then dump in a quart of whatever the cheapest Dexron III is on the shelf, then complain when it poops the bed.

IMHO, It started with the electronically controlled Chrysler transmission that required ATF +3 and so many people killed them using everything but that in them....


If that's true why does my Journey have one and it's the 4 Speed with the ATF-3 requirement, yet my Dad's Caravan with the Mercedes/Chrysler transmission just has the fill port and no dipstick?

I think they are just being cheap and wanting you to bring it to the dealer for everything.

---- That I say!
wink.gif
 
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Also added to my list.... The "I've given up on life" vehicles:

-Ford Taurus
-Gold Toyota Camry's
-Gold Toyota Corola's

And the new Prius because it looks like a Pokemon character with it's weird styling.
 
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.

Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.

Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Also added to my list.... The "I've given up on life" vehicles:

And the new Prius because it looks like a Pokemon character with it's weird styling.


Toyota gets endless smack for being too vanilla... so the Prius gets a little edgy and...smack

Nobody complains about Nissans and a bunch of their cars are just weird looking.
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.

Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.

Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...


Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
smile.gif
 
As far a touch screens go, I'm not opposed to new technology but I am opposed to tech for the sake of tech. Touch screens are harder to use in a moving vehicle as they take your eyes away from the road for too long, the buttons do not provide tactile feedback so you are required to look away from the road to use them and because they are multi layered the target changes based on the screen and menu being shown. They are great for stuff like navigation that does not require input once underway but even that presents it's own problem in that most NAV systems will be hopelessly out of date in 10 years.

There is the argument that Apple CarPlay and Android Auto solve some of the issues regarding up to date information but looking out 10 or even 5 years there is no guarantee that these systems will even work with next generation phones. Apple being the worst offender when it comes to abandoning old technologies and interfaces.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Have to agree with the continuing education and investment in tools required comment.

Most of my more recent tool acquisitions are digital in nature to deal with the electronics. And honestly, I'm still able to do most everything once I educate myself and get the right equipment.

Instead of a multi meter now its a dongle and laptop or other computing device...


Something lost on the newer generation that I'm glad to know about from my mechanic dad was how to properly setup a carburettor and how to use a Dwell Meter to setup points or old BOSCH C.I.S. Fuel Injection systems equipped with Oxygen Sensors.
smile.gif



I haven't owned a car with a Carburetor in at least two decades. Why does one need to know about points and condensers these days? Boy-you are holding on to the past.....The reason to know about this stuff is as good as a reason to know how to turn a tuner knob on a television set.
 
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: StevieC


It costs hardly anything!


I don't think it is about cost but rather the transition to proprietary fluids that are very transmission-specific and the propensity for over-fills by people who don't read the manual and check it in the Walmart parking lot then dump in a quart of whatever the cheapest Dexron III is on the shelf, then complain when it poops the bed.

IMHO, It started with the electronically controlled Chrysler transmission that required ATF +3 and so many people killed them using everything but that in them....


If that's true why does my Journey have one and it's the 4 Speed with the ATF-3 requirement, yet my Dad's Caravan with the Mercedes/Chrysler transmission just has the fill port and no dipstick?

I think they are just being cheap and wanting you to bring it to the dealer for everything.

---- That I say!
wink.gif



It is just being progressively phased in. The NAG1 (Mercedes tranny, my Charger and my wife's Charger had it) had a port for a dipstick, but did not include one, because there was a very specific procedure for checking the fluid level. I'm not sure if it is being pushed more by the OEM's or the transmission manufacturers (in the case of my Durango and Jeep, they are both variants of the venerable 8spd used by various other manufacturers) but there is definitely a trend to eliminate user interaction on the more advanced gearboxes and I would wager a lot of it has to do with the ever increasing complexity and requirements for specific fluids.
 
CVT and Stop start that can't be disabled. I rather enjoy turbos. AFM is a bug yuck.
 
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