CR Bad Bets

[Tornado Red]

Quote:

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Here is CR's list of *used* cars to avoid based on their consumer surveys. Here is what they say about the list:

"The list...is compiled from overall reliability data covering 1997-2006 models with...much-worse-than-average reliability. CR...Bad Bets include only the models for which we have sufficient data for at least three model years. Models that were brand-new in 2005 or 2006 do not appear. Problems with the engine, engine cooling, transmission, and drive system were weighted more heavily than other problems."
(snip)
Volkswagen Cabrio
Volkswagen Jetta (turbo, gas)
Volkswagen Jetta (V6)
Volkswagen New Beetle (4-cyl.)
Volkswagen Touareg

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It's worth noting that none of the VWs with TDI engines made this list.

And that the newest Jetta and Rabbit with the 2.5-liter 5-cylinder are too new to be evaluated.

It's possible that Volkswagens may drop off the "bad bets" list in the next couple years.

 

[Lonnie]

We had Aztec's in a fleet and people just loved them, although the tinting was made darker on a few because people did not want to be seen driving the thing (not kidding). The Aztec's were never garage queens and were quick in hitting the mileage to get released from the leases. Every one was purchased by employees, off the lease. Several bought more than one. Early on they needed some tweaks like fixing loose hoses and wiring falling out of it's clips, loose battery and lug nuts not tight and loose trim. All this was just sloppy assembly, which we have seen in many so called domestic's (no flames, please). The mods done by us were premium shocks, bigger tires, harder pads and after market disc's and a brain upgrade from an after market company. After the first year in the fleet, the follow on order was for triple the number of vehicles, and even more on the third year. Dealers were making us screaming deals just to get rid of them. One dealer had 12 and gave us a deal on 10 if we would take 11 and 12 for free, or more accurately just the document fees and tax.

 

[LouDawg]

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Jeep Grand Cherokee?! They said once that this is the most unreliable vehicle in the country. I want proof. 116K miles. 12 year old Jeep. Second owner.
Changed:
Water Pump
Radiator
Motor/Trans Mount (Too much off roading)
Shocks (Louisiana roads)
Regular wear and tear parts.

CR needs to pull their heads out and write some UNBIASED REVIEWS!

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Your one example does not constitute a statistically significant sample...sorry. I'm sure you've had great luck with it, but apparently, a lot of other people were not so fortunate.

 

[Lonnie]

I went back an looked at the Aztec's records. I'd rate it as one of the most reliable domestic minivan/crossover's we've ever had. Our records show that the acceptance by drivers is off the chart good, too. And the prices we were able to buy these things at were the deepest discounts off sticker I've ever seen. I counted, and over about 5 purchase years and 7 years of operations we had 580 Aztec's pass through our system, located in 11 states. I think that Pontiac was embarrassed to sell such an ugly duck. I guess the saying is true. Beauty is only skin deep, ugly goes clear to the bone.

 

[JeepZJ4.0]

JeepsUnlimited.com. Look at a Grand Cherokee forum... problems are sparatic, but not as bad some other cars. After browsing a Nissan Maxima forum, I'm not so sure I want to buy one since the 6th gen has a shimmy/shake that won't go away. I'll admit, the 93-95 Grand wasn't very reliable. But the quality has gone up since but CR continues to come back to those 1st years of production.
Car and Driver's long term test of the WJ (99-04) Grand Cherokee showed no problems to report, something that couldn't of been said about the ML class and the RX300 of that year.

CR = THE WORST MAGAZINE EVERY WRITTEN for anything automotive. If you want real world automotive results, google the forum of the vehicle you are looking to buy. That's real, unbiased, reporting.

Yes my one example may very well be an outlier. But we've owned 3 Grand Cherokees, none with problems. I have friends and co-workers and fellow students, who haven't had a single thing wrong.

 

[K-Man]

Oddly enough, I've heard from others that the Aztec was actually a pretty decent vehicle—if you were able to get past that rhinoceros styling.

The problem some with Grand Cherokees out my way from what their owners have told me is that their maintenance schedule went more like this:

Changed:
Engine
Transmission
Rear axle
Front end
Body
Interior
Electrics

Just kidding, not quite that bad, but I have heard a few Grand Cherokee owners complain that their vehicles stayed in the shop too much.

 

[LouDawg]

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JeepsUnlimited.com. Look at a Grand Cherokee forum... problems are sparatic, but not as bad some other cars. After browsing a Nissan Maxima forum, I'm not so sure I want to buy one since the 6th gen has a shimmy/shake that won't go away. I'll admit, the 93-95 Grand wasn't very reliable. But the quality has gone up since but CR continues to come back to those 1st years of production.
Car and Driver's long term test of the WJ (99-04) Grand Cherokee showed no problems to report, something that couldn't of been said about the ML class and the RX300 of that year.

CR = THE WORST MAGAZINE EVERY WRITTEN for anything automotive. If you want real world automotive results, google the forum of the vehicle you are looking to buy. That's real, unbiased, reporting.

Yes my one example may very well be an outlier. But we've owned 3 Grand Cherokees, none with problems. I have friends and co-workers and fellow students, who haven't had a single thing wrong.

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Forums are a good place to look for ideas about any potential problems, but I wouldn't say they are "unbiased". If anything, it's just the opposite. Most people who take the time to join a forum are enthusiasts/hobbyists. They may not be the most unbiased source for *comparative ratings*, but they will definitely talk about specific problems with specific models.

As for CR, I'm not going to say it's the best and only place to consider, but it's wrong to say it's not "real world". The problems they report with reliability come from the consumers themselves, not their own opinions. And their most recent report went back ten years, so your 93-95 examples were not included in the latest results.

 

[Lonnie]

Forums are sometimes the worst place to go. Who knows whats behind the threads, good or bad about a vehicle.

In our fleet records the Jeep Grand Cherokee has been pretty bad for one problem after another. People that have a choice of vehicles and keep them two or three years have almost never reordered a JGC. The Aztec had a waiting list. The Jeep had more problems than I have time to list.

 

[01rangerxl]

A friend of mine had a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with a 4.7L. It had a number of fit and finish problems, though the engine and drivetrain held up. I think it was sold with about 140,000 miles on it, mostly because the interior was falling apart.

 

[LouDawg]

Lonnie, have you guys had any Escapes or Accords in your fleet? Just curious how my two choices did in your records.

Thanks.

 

[Lonnie]

Lots of Accords, good cars, even some V6's with a 6-speed manual transmission.

Escapes, yes. Also a bunch of Hybrid-Escapes used as taxi's. The Hybrid Escapes appear to be more reliable than the standard ones.

 

[mkaresh]

There's a lot of room for improvement in CR's methods, so I've been developing an alternative. My main critique:

Consumer Reports critique

I've been getting help from some people from this forum. If you're one of them, thanks. 10,000 people so far, but need many more.

 

[Cutehumor]

all the gm models maybe due to the intake gasket leaking fiasco

 

[cousincletus]

^^^ the intake problems were fixed sometime during the 2003 model year.

 

[1sttruck]

"Jeep Grand Cherokee?! They said once that this is the most unreliable vehicle in the country."

It seems to have gotten better lately, but for awhile fancy Jeeps to be the most common newer vehicle on the side of the road.

 

[pmwalter]

Loudawg,

I'm suprised with the two mentioned at the bottom. I thought those were good cars.

2007 Honda Accord EX-L, 3.0L V6 VTEC, 5AT
2007 Ford Escape XLS, 2.3L I4 Duratec, 4AT

 

[LouDawg]

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Loudawg,

I'm suprised with the two mentioned at the bottom. I thought those were good cars.

2007 Honda Accord EX-L, 3.0L V6 VTEC, 5AT
2007 Ford Escape XLS, 2.3L I4 Duratec, 4AT

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Hehehe...good point. Of course, the Accord is at the top, but the Escape is somewhat middling rated. However, I have to say that I'm very pleased with it so far. It's tight, drives nice, handles good for it's type vehicle, and seems generally well put together. I keep saying it, but there's something about the steering that I just love...it's perfect to my way of driving. And to top it all off, I've always had good "luck" with Fords. I know that's only anecdotal, but so far so good.