CR Good Bets

[LouDawg]

Here is CR's list of *used* cars that have performed well in their road tests and have had several years of better-than-average reliability according to their survey respondents.

Again, I know this is CR. Just interested in what others think. A VERY strong slant/bias toward Japanese vehicles. Coincidental, or something more? (55 out of 60, over 90%, are from Japanese companies. Even I am surprised that they didn't have more domestic models on here.)

Here is their explanation of the ratings:

"The list...is compiled from overall reliability data covering 1997-2006 models with better-than-average reliability. CR Good Bets include only the models for which we have sufficient data for at least three model years. Models that were brand-new in 2005 or 2006 do not appear. Problems with the engine, engine cooling, transmission, and drive system were weighted more heavily than other problems."

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Acura Integra
Acura MDX
Acura RL
Acura RSX (except ‘06)
Acura TL
Acura TSX
Buick Regal
Chevrolet Prizm
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Honda Civic Hybrid
Honda CR-V
Honda Element
Honda Odyssey
Honda Pilot
Honda Prelude
Honda S2000
Infiniti FX
Infiniti G20
Infiniti G35
Infiniti I30, I35
Infiniti QX4
Lexus ES
Lexus GS
Lexus GX
Lexus IS
Lexus LS
Lexus RX
Lexus SC
Lincoln Town Car
Mazda Millenia
Mazda MX-5 Miata
Mazda Protegé
Mazda3
Nissan Altima
Nissan Maxima
Nissan Pathfinder
Pontiac Vibe
Scion xB
Subaru Forester
Subaru Impreza
Subaru Impreza WRX
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Avalon
Toyota Camry
Toyota Camry Solara
Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Echo
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Matrix
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Sienna
Toyota Tundra

 

[01rangerxl]

As usual, I would take it with a grain of salt. For example, the Town Car is one of three cars on the Panther platform. Why are the Grand Marquis and Crown Vic not on there? Mechanically they are not very different. If anything, I would expect them to better the Town Car since the Town Car has an air suspension...air suspensions are rarely more reliable than metal springs.

 

[The Critic]

Acura MDX 01-02
Acura TL 99-03, especially 00-03
Honda Odyssey 99-01

You mean those transmission fryers? Sure, they are covered under warranty until 100k, but the 5-speed TLs (00-03) are notorious for transmission failures. OK, updated parts are available now in both the OEM and aftermarket to correct the clutch weaknesses and rebuilds run < $3000, but still...

And the RX300 from 99-03 had that U140E transmission. Lexus dealers tend not to change the fluid at the major services (unlike Toyota dealerships), and these transmissions have been known to fail...to a tune of around $3500 to rebuild!

 

[01rangerxl]

Not to mention the sludgers that Toyota is getting sued for...

 

[punisher]

Quote:

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As usual, I would take it with a grain of salt. For example, the Town Car is one of three cars on the Panther platform. Why are the Grand Marquis and Crown Vic not on there? Mechanically they are not very different. If anything, I would expect them to better the Town Car since the Town Car has an air suspension...air suspensions are rarely more reliable than metal springs.

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Back in the mid 90s FoMoCo shuffled their higher rated assembly people to Towncar and Continental assembly lines. Workers were given pay bonuses for making the cut. In talking to my remaining buddies still with Ford the Crown Vic/Grand Marq has taken a nosedive in build quality the last few years, lots of little problems have been creeping up

Air suspensions made winters passable for us techs. We had the same problems with air suspensions on Grand Marqs and Vics as we did on Town Cars.

 

[The Critic]

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Not to mention the sludgers that Toyota is getting sued for...

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The sludge engines are a non-issue. I know of many, many Toyota 4 and 6 cylinder engines from that time period, some with spotty maintenance records, run GREAT with over 200k on the clock. On the other hand, the Honda self-destructing transmissions are an entirely different story and are beyond the control of owners.

 

[LouDawg]

I believe the Honda auto tranny issues were resolved...there was a redesign on those that seems to have taken care of the problem. (Oil jet on 2nd gear)

At least, that's what I'm hoping!

 

[Gilitar]

No real surprises here.

 

[obbop]

Data compiled from input from owners. Subjective input. In my opinion the input was mainly based upon the owner's feeeeeeeeelings.

Wonder if the advice giver on the frilly fluffy gal's auto site, the one declaring that synthetic oil burns differently, filled out a survey form?

Look around at the masses of simpletons stumbling through life. They are the ones remitting info to CR. Oh yeah, there's likely a few car savvy folks filling out those CR surveys but what about the average folk who know little to nuthin' about their rolling contraptions?

Those CR reports may be useful to a certain extent but any conclusions based upon data accumulated from American sheeple can not be fool-proof.

And that's all I got to say about that.

 

[Pablo]

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Honda Odyssey 99-01

You mean those transmission fryers?

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While not trivializing the problem, and it certainly was a big problem - in the scheme of things it was a spike. For the Ody - maybe a few 2003, but not many 2004-2005's and essentially zero 2006's. I am pleased to find the Ody on the list, but the way you write you would think it should be on the bad list! I think overall - anecdotally - I have never met anyone who was pi~~ed about their Ody purchase.

 

[LouDawg]

Quote:

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Data compiled from input from owners. Subjective input. In my opinion the input was mainly based upon the owner's feeeeeeeeelings.

Wonder if the advice giver on the frilly fluffy gal's auto site, the one declaring that synthetic oil burns differently, filled out a survey form?

Look around at the masses of simpletons stumbling through life. They are the ones remitting info to CR. Oh yeah, there's likely a few car savvy folks filling out those CR surveys but what about the average folk who know little to nuthin' about their rolling contraptions?

Those CR reports may be useful to a certain extent but any conclusions based upon data accumulated from American sheeple can not be fool-proof.

And that's all I got to say about that.

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obbop you may or may not be right about the "simpletons", "sheeple", and people's "feelings" being noteworthy. But isn't it fair to say that if enough people, regardless of their acumen, report enough problems with a particular vehicle, then maybe...just maybe...there's something to it? Not saying it's the end all, be all, but I believe that sheer numbers mean something. Where there's enough smoke, there's probably some fire.

 

[benjamming]

So, how does CR determine who fills out the auto surveys?

 

[drewjp]

I filled out two, one for each of our vehicles(PT Cruiser and Honda Pilot).

I believe they send them once a year to each of their subscribers.

No surprises here that they're mostly all Japanese cars. CR thinks they are the end-all-be-all in quality nowadays...

 

[LouDawg]

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So, how does CR determine who fills out the auto surveys?

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They just send them to all their subscribers and do their report based on what gets returned. I can tell you from experience as a subscriber that they hound you and hound you to death to get you to send them in, so they can have as much data as possible.

This year I think it covered 1.2 million vehicles. To obbop's point, I've seen them, and you don't have to be a mental heavyweight to fill them out. It ain't rocket science. Of course, who would've thought punching out a chad in a voting card would be that difficult, either.

 

[The Critic]

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I believe the Honda auto tranny issues were resolved...there was a redesign on those that seems to have taken care of the problem. (Oil jet on 2nd gear)

At least, that's what I'm hoping!

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3rd clutch pack wear was the main issues. I've known of a few 2-3 shift problems due to linear solenoid failure as well.

Quote:

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Honda Odyssey 99-01

You mean those transmission fryers?

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While not trivializing the problem, and it certainly was a big problem - in the scheme of things it was a spike. For the Ody - maybe a few 2003, but not many 2004-2005's and essentially zero 2006's. I am pleased to find the Ody on the list, but the way you write you would think it should be on the bad list! I think overall - anecdotally - I have never met anyone who was pi~~ed about their Ody purchase.

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The five-speed Odysseys (02-04) have had very few failures. Virtually none on 2006+. 99-01 are where most of the problems are. For instance, two of my close friends (neighbor+classmate) both had their 01 Odyssey's transmission replaced at 40k and 60k, respectively.

 

[buster]

My g/f traded in a car off the worst list and bought one on the best list.

Lot of German cars on that "worst" list.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Quote:

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Here is CR's list of *used* cars that have performed well in their road tests and have had several years of better-than-average reliability according to their survey respondents.

Again, I know this is CR. Just interested in what others think. A VERY strong slant/bias toward Japanese vehicles. Coincidental, or something more? (55 out of 60, over 90%, are from Japanese companies. Even I am surprised that they didn't have more domestic models on here.)

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I drive a 1995 Toyota Avalon and from my experiences with it, I would be surprised if it did not make the list. It has only had minor problems, such as the radio antenna motor breaking twice, a $1924+ repair job last January on the seals (the motor oil was leaking), power steering pump (the power steering fluid was leaking) and power steering fluid hose (the power steering fluid was leaking), the remote car openers ceasing to work after five to seven years, the exhaust coming loose (following a minor collision in its rear), and a few plastic things inside the cabin breaking. Beyond those items, the car has had no problems over its almost 12 year lifespan, despite having had poor maintenance until last summer when I took over its maintenance. Barring any major collisions, I should be able to drive it for the rest of my life and since I am in college, that should be a long time.

Anyway, given my family's experiences with American cars, I am surprised that any of them made the list.

 

[LouDawg]

You consider a $1924 repair job "minor"? Seems to me that if this happened to a domestic car, especially since you had bad seals causing motor oil leakage, along with two separate antenna motors breaking, a power steering pump, and several other "minor" issues, we'd be all over that. Hey, I love my Honda as well as any car, but I've had overall good luck my domestics too.

All of this is anecdotal, anyway.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

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You consider a $1924 repair job "minor"? Seems to me that if this happened to a domestic car, especially since you had bad seals causing motor oil leakage, along with two separate antenna motors breaking, a power steering pump, and several other "minor" issues, we'd be all over that. Hey, I love my Honda as well as any car, but I've had overall good luck my domestics too.

All of this is anecdotal, anyway.

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The two antenna motors broke because water had frozen on the antenna, burning them out when they tried to pull the antenna down, because I was too negligent to realize that the antenna had frozen. As for the seals, they were close to 12 years old and it is a wonder that the poor oil change intervals that killed them did not lead to any sludge problems. Despite that, the oil leak only started after I had the brilliant idea of running Mobil 1 through an engine that should have had (and did have) false seals due to poor maintenance. The only issues you cited that were not the result of negligence (although if I did not run the Mobil 1 through it, they probably would have started eventually, as they do in any car that does not have good oil change intervals) were the leaking power steering pump and power steering fluid oil hose, which were minor problems compared to the problems family has had with American vehicles (one uncle had a 1966 Ford Mustang when he was younger that had an engine that stalled every few miles, requiring that he tweak the butterfly to get it started again, the same uncle now has a Dodge Caravan whose engine has been replaced twice and another uncle has a Chevrolet Blazer that probably cost him more to repair than to buy. In addition, the representative from Geico considered the $1924~ repair to be minor in comparison to the four to five digit repair jobs on American vehicles that they subsidize through their mechanical breakdown insurance.

 

[rszappa1]

The truth hurts doesnt it....They just make a better car....and most with americian workers too....