Convergence of the API SP/RC (ILSAC GF-6) and ACEA-2021 specs

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API isn't the be all end all in the Euro world. You either trust the tests behind the automaker specific Oil Cert or you don't.

Mercedes Benz, who's also not on the list, has their own timing chain and LSPI test.

I have no idea how these OE tests compare to those found under SN+ or SP but I know for a fact that they exist.

Oil blenders have a wider customer base so there's a financial incentive for them to obtain API licenses (Ex Liqui Moly, BP (aka Castrol)) for a variety of their products.

If you're so hung up on API SP oil then buy Pennzoil Euro 5w40 with LL01.
My BMW's manual does not allow for oils meeting the LL-01 spec - only LL-01 FE or LL-17 FE+. So Pennzoil is not in the game, unfortunately. But thanks for the suggestion.

So, my conclusion is that at least for recent model BMWs, the set of oils meeting @Gokhan qualification of "if a legacy ACEA oil also carries an API-SP approval" is empty. So we will continue to be unable to "ensure that [any oil] will provide the highest valvetrain wear, timing-chain wear, and LSPI protection".

Disappointing, to say the least.
 

Gokhan

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My BMW's manual does not allow for oils meeting the LL-01 spec - only LL-01 FE or LL-17 FE+. So Pennzoil is not in the game, unfortunately. But thanks for the suggestion.

So, my conclusion is that at least for recent model BMWs, the set of oils meeting @Gokhan qualification of "if a legacy ACEA oil also carries an API-SP approval" is empty. So we will continue to be unable to "ensure that [any oil] will provide the highest valvetrain wear, timing-chain wear, and LSPI protection".

Disappointing, to say the least.
That is fine. However, you will also be fine with extended-performance API-SP oils such as Castrol EP 0W-20 SP or 5W-30 SP or Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 SP or 5W-30 SP. Valvoline EP 0W-20 SP or 5W-30 SP should be fine, too.
 
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My BMW's manual does not allow for oils meeting the LL-01 spec - only LL-01 FE or LL-17 FE+. So Pennzoil is not in the game, unfortunately. But thanks for the suggestion.

So, my conclusion is that at least for recent model BMWs, the set of oils meeting @Gokhan qualification of "if a legacy ACEA oil also carries an API-SP approval" is empty. So we will continue to be unable to "ensure that [any oil] will provide the highest valvetrain wear, timing-chain wear, and LSPI protection".

Disappointing, to say the least.
Ya well the B48 can run LL01, LL04, LL01FE, LL12FE and LL17FE+. LL01 FE is a "fuel efficient" version of LL01 as the HTHS is slightly lower.

Automakers have been very sensitive to the regulatory schemes (Emissions and FE requirement such as CAFE). They're not going to recommend an oil which is thicker than the one used to certify the drivetrain. Beginning around 2016 BMW moved their North American fleet to LL01FE and then to Xw-20 with the B-series engines.

Edit: Here's some more info. BTW..Just to make clear I'm not judging you at all. You can pretty much run almost any oil in the B48 and if you want to run a euro-centric SP by all means go for it.

Screenshot_20221115-145132.png
 
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Ya well the B48 can run LL01, LL04, LL01FE, LL12FE and LL17FE+. LL01 FE is a "fuel efficient" version of LL01 as the HTHS is slightly lower.

Automakers have been very sensitive to the regulatory schemes (Emissions and FE requirement such as CAFE). They're not going to recommend an oil which is thicker than the one used to certify the drivetrain. Beginning around 2016 BMW moved their North American fleet to LL01FE and then to Xw-20 with the B-series engines.

Edit: Here's some more info. BTW..Just to make clear I'm not judging you at all. You can pretty much run almost any oil in the B48 and if you want to run a euro-centric SP by all means go for it.

View attachment 126361
Thanks.

I have seen this chart before and wondered what the publication date was. Is it recent? Is the context for the US or some other part of the world?

LL-01, LL-04, and LL-12 FE are not among the recommended oils in my 2019 US B48 manual. BMW may have changed their mind about those oils between the time this chart was published, and my car's manual was published, at least for the US.
 
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Thanks.

I have seen this chart before and wondered what the publication date was. Is it recent? Is the context for the US or some other part of the world?

LL-01, LL-04, and LL-12 FE are not among the recommended oils in my 2019 US B48 manual. BMW may have changed their mind about those oils between the time this chart was published, and my car's manual was published, at least for the US.
IIRC it's around 2018/2019 but as you can see it mentions engines with and without GPF so you can get an idea of how recent it is. I do know it's prior to the time that the US moved to ULSG (circa 2020).

The list is for markets worldwide.
 
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Here is an interesting comparison that I put together of 4 current Castrol products using the most recent data available. The first three are very similar. With the exception of the higher weight for the third product, are the first three products actually the same product or slight variations of the same chemistry? The fourth product is clearly different, but perhaps will evolve in the direction of the other products?

(All temperatures are in celsius)Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0W-20 C6Castrol Edge 0W20 LL17 FE+Genuine BMW TBT 0W30 LL-01 FEGenuine BMW TBT 0W20 LL-17 FE+
[email protected]8.28.189.927.8
PP-42-42
Flash203221
VI166169
CCS58005580
Ca9539761289
Mg741836540
Na11
P741643735
Zn817750817
Moly717585
Ti2317
Boron138150114
HTHS>= 2.63>=2.65
APISPSPSPSN
ILSACGF-6
ACEAC6C5A5/B5C5-16
MB229.71
GMdexos1 Gen 3
BMWLL-17 FE+LL-01 FELL-17 FE+


 
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Here is an interesting comparison that I put together of 4 current Castrol products using the most recent data available. The first three are very similar. With the exception of the higher weight for the third product, are the first three products actually the same product or slight variations of the same chemistry? The fourth product is clearly different, but perhaps will evolve in the direction of the other products?

(All temperatures are in celsius)Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0W-20 C6Castrol Edge 0W20 LL17 FE+Genuine BMW TBT 0W30 LL-01 FEGenuine BMW TBT 0W20 LL-17 FE+
[email protected]8.28.189.927.8
PP-42-42
Flash203221
VI166169
CCS58005580
Ca9539761289
Mg741836540
Na11
P741643735
Zn817750817
Moly717585
Ti2317
Boron138150114
HTHS>= 2.63>=2.65
APISPSPSPSN
ILSACGF-6
ACEAC6C5A5/B5C5-16
MB229.71
GMdexos1 Gen 3
BMWLL-17 FE+LL-01 FELL-17 FE+

Oops, I screwed up. The UOA derived values under Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0W-20 C6 are not for that oil but for Castrol Edge 0W-20 SN. Treat with skepticism rows 7-16 in that column.
 
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I just stumbled on this. Are there many oils available with these new ACEA ratings? I was considering an A5 rated oil per Hyundai’s manual but if SP is really ahead of things in timing chain wear I will probably just keep it simple and use readily available SP full synthetic. This also makes me think twice about M1 0W40 in my ecoboost.
 
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I just stumbled on this. Are there many oils available with these new ACEA ratings? I was considering an A5 rated oil per Hyundai’s manual but if SP is really ahead of things in timing chain wear I will probably just keep it simple and use readily available SP full synthetic. This also makes me think twice about M1 0W40 in my ecoboost.
ACEA A5/B5 doesn't have a LSPI or GDI chain wear test.
ACEA A7/B7 do have LSPI and GDI chain wear test. In fact, it's the same tests which are used for API SP. Source: 2021 ACEA Test Sequences

Think of A5 as SN and A7 as SP.

However, euro certs have had their own timing chain wear tests which are conducted on on GDI engines. I don't know if they also have LSPI tests.
 
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ACEA A5/B5 doesn't have a LSPI or GDI chain wear test.
ACEA A7/B7 do have LSPI and GDI chain wear test. In fact, it's the same tests which are used for API SP. Source: 2021 ACEA Test Sequences

Think of A5 as SN and A7 as SP.

However, euro certs have had their own timing chain wear tests which are conducted on on GDI engines. I don't know if they also have LSPI tests.
EDIT: Mercedes Benz has a LSPI test.
 
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The requirements of Acea engine oils are many times higher than the requirements for api. The chain wear test of the api sp standard has also been available at Acea so far and more strictly. The LSPi test, on the other hand, was only introduced with the a7/b7 standard. But it should also be said that not all engines really need this.
 
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