collinite 476 aggravations - by hand or machine

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12
Location
New York
Well, there isn't a Sealant around(or Ceramic Spray) that outlasts 476. The effort is worth the longevity and honestly the effort is no different than any other paste or liquid wax if applied thin.

It's not blatantly false. First I didn't say 476 doesn't last long (another mischaracterization) but all wax, particularly natural wax, is highly susceptible to UV and heat. Hate to break it to you but there is natural wax in 476. After a relatively short period of time, that carnauba is gone and it's just the synthetic wax components of the 476 left over. It may very well be the most durable paste wax out there but there are things that will give better gloss, with equivalent durability, and are MUCH easier to apply. After what the OP went through, forget sealants, a ceramic coating would've been better for him on all fronts.

Let's see. I never mentioned about shine or carunuba in 476. Fact is many sealants have some natural properties to it and the shine won't last nearly as long as the protection. That's a given with most sealants so specifically mentioning this about 476 gives the impression you have an axe to grind for whatever reason. All I said was 476 lasts a long time, as long as any other sealant out there which is an on objective truth. People have different experiences but it's pretty widely agreed upon 476 lasts approximately a year. 476 may not be the best product but it is very good, proven, widely available and cheap. It's from the stone age of detailing, it doesn't belong there though and hangs toe to toe with most products out there.

The OP struggled with a paste wax. The last thing he should do is try to put on a ceramic coating.

Just curious, how do you determine if 476 (or any other sealant) is still present on the paint?

I ask because clean (uncontaminated) paint can often bead fairly well.
Good point. With 476 specifically after 10 months I tested on my hood by playing with the hose, checked the beading(fat and ovally), then I clayed a certain section and polished it. When I sprayed water on it afterwards it was flat and there was no sheeting at all while the rest of the hood remained consistent with it's beading. Other than test sections I really couldn't answer your question.
 
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2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
Let's see. I never mentioned about shine or carunuba in 476. Fact is many sealants have some natural properties to it and the shine won't last nearly as long as the protection. That's a given with most sealants so specifically mentioning this about 476 gives the impression you have an axe to grind for whatever reason. All I said was 476 lasts a long time, as long as any other sealant out there which is an on objective truth. People have different experiences but it's pretty widely agreed upon 476 lasts approximately a year. 476 may not be the best product but it is very good, proven, widely available and cheap. It's from the stone age of detailing, it doesn't belong there though and hangs toe to toe with most products out there.

The OP struggled with a paste wax. The last thing he should do is try to put on a ceramic coating.


Good point. With 476 specifically after 10 months I tested on my hood by playing with the hose, checked the beading(fat and ovally), then I clayed a certain section and polished it. When I sprayed water on it afterwards it was flat and there was no sheeting at all while the rest of the hood remained consistent with it's beading. Other than test sections I really couldn't answer your question.
I don't have as much of an axe to grind with it as you do to prop it up. I acknowledge it lasts a long time.

Re-read the OP and tell me a ceramic coating wouldn't have been easier than the nonsense he had to go through. Are you suggesting the OP isn't competent? To me it seems like he was trying to apply it thinly from the outset. He could've installed CQuartz Lite or Gyeon One with less work or opportunity for error.
 
Messages
10,082
Location
OH
It's not blatantly false. First I didn't say 476 doesn't last long (another mischaracterization) but all wax, particularly natural wax, is highly susceptible to UV and heat. Hate to break it to you but there is natural wax in 476. After a relatively short period of time, that carnauba is gone and it's just the synthetic wax components of the 476 left over. It may very well be the most durable paste wax out there but there are things that will give better gloss, with equivalent durability, and are MUCH easier to apply. After what the OP went through, forget sealants, a ceramic coating would've been better for him on all fronts.
I disagree there are other products that provide a better gloss, will last just as long, and are easier to apply. 476 is not difficult to apply AT ALL. Anyone who claims it is isn't using it correctly. I have yet to use ANY product that lasts as long...
 
Messages
2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
I disagree there are other products that provide a better gloss, will last just as long, and are easier to apply. 476 is not difficult to apply AT ALL. Anyone who claims it is isn't using it correctly. I have yet to use ANY product that lasts as long...
With all due respect, you, sir, are hardly a gage of what's out there and how well other products perform. You've had to be set straight by several people several times over the years due to a narrow scope of old products. I'm sure your car(s) are very clean and the products you use work for you, but that does not mean you're using the best products or techniques.
 
Messages
10,082
Location
OH
With all due respect, you, sir, are hardly a gage of what's out there and how well other products perform. You've had to be set straight by several people several times over the years due to a narrow scope of old products. I'm sure your car(s) are very clean and the products you use work for you, but that does not mean you're using the best products or techniques.
Never said I did or I do. What I am saying is I haven't used anything that lasts as long as the 476, and I don't believe any of the products you mentioned will either...
 
Messages
12
Location
New York
I don't have as much of an axe to grind with it as you do to prop it up. I acknowledge it lasts a long time.

Re-read the OP and tell me a ceramic coating wouldn't have been easier than the nonsense he had to go through. Are you suggesting the OP isn't competent? To me it seems like he was trying to apply it thinly from the outset. He could've installed CQuartz Lite or Gyeon One with less work or opportunity for error.
You're suggesting it's easier to apply a ceramic coating over a paste wax? :ROFLMAO:

The OP is likely a competent detailer judging by his steps. With that said everybody makes mistakes. 476 is easy as hell to remove(like any wax or sealant) if applied thin and not in direct sunlight. Obviously he didn't apply it as thin as he thought.
 
Messages
2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
You're suggesting it's easier to apply a ceramic coating over a paste wax? :ROFLMAO:

The OP is likely a competent detailer judging by his steps. With that said everybody makes mistakes. 476 is easy as hell to remove(like any wax or sealant) if applied thin and not in direct sunlight. Obviously he didn't apply it as thin as he thought.
Look at you thinking you know things and showing the forum with a laughing face. Compared to what the OP described (which is what we're talking about here) applying a ceramic coating is ABSOLUTELY easier than what he went through and you're ignorant if you think otherwise. Note the OP already had the finish prepped to the point where it could've accepted a coating. Application of almost all coatings is: wipe on with an applicator, wait ~90 seconds, wipe off with two microfiber towels (not all that different from a wax once the prep is done).
NOT: 'I'm soaked with sweat, both shoulders burnings, hands cramping and I'm [censored]'
NOT: 'Removing that stuff is like removing the clear coat by hand.'
NOT: 'UNBELIEVABLY hard to remove'
NOT: 'The only other thing I could do is try to buff it out using my PC 7424 and a MF bonnet'
NOT: 'Whats aggravating is all the dust when removing it by machine and the bonnets get so caked up with it.'
NOT: 'using a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest to remove, I rate 476 a 10'
 
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Messages
12
Location
New York
Look at you thinking you know things and showing the forum with a laughing face. Compared to what the OP described (which is what we're talking about here) applying a ceramic coating is ABSOLUTELY easier than what he went through and you're ignorant if you think otherwise. Note the OP already had the finish prepped to the point where it could've accepted a coating. Application of almost all coatings is: wipe on with an applicator, wait ~90 seconds, wipe off with two microfiber towels (not all that different from a wax once the prep is done).
NOT: 'I'm soaked with sweat, both shoulders burnings, hands cramping and I'm [censored]'
NOT: 'Removing that stuff is like removing the clear coat by hand.'
NOT: 'UNBELIEVABLY hard to remove'
NOT: 'The only other thing I could do is try to buff it out using my PC 7424 and a MF bonnet'
NOT: 'Whats aggravating is all the dust when removing it by machine and the bonnets get so caked up with it.'
NOT: 'using a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest to remove, I rate 476 a 10'
You laughed at several posts in this topic over others having a different opinion. It's pretty pathetic you can't take what you dish out. Speaking of ignorance let's see some of your comments on this thread.

"476 is a wax, waxes don't last long cuz of heat/UV"
"I never said 476 doesn't last a long time"
You agreed Seal and Shine lasts longer than 476.
Now you're doubling down that applying a Ceramic Coating is easier than applying/removing paste wax.

Your posts have left you with absolutely no credibility. Anybody objective can see I'm discussing with a stubborn fool.
 
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Messages
2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
You laughed at several posts in this topic over others having a different opinion. It's pretty pathetic you can't take what you dish out. Speaking of ignorance let's see some of your comments on this thread.

"476 is a wax, waxes don't last long cuz of heat/UV"
"I never said 476 doesn't last a long time"
You agreed Seal and Shine lasts longer than 476.
Now you're doubling down that applying a Ceramic Coating is easier than applying/removing paste wax.

Your posts have left you with absolutely no credibility. Feel free to respond, I'm sure you will but reality is anybody objective can see I'm discussing with a stubborn fool.
If people are reading and comprehending, I'm happy to be judged on the content of my posts.

1. What you attribute to me as a quote is not a quote from any of my posts. I would never use the word "cuz", but I did state that waxes are highly susceptible to heat and UV because they are; 476 is a blend of synthetic and natural waxes.
2. Correct, I didn't say 476 won't last a long time.
3. Show us where I agreed Seal and Shine lasts longer than 476. Since when does simply liking a post where someone mentions Seal and Shine constitute agreeing it lasts longer? Seal and Shine is an effective product with extremely impressive chemical resistance, worthy of consideration by many people, so I liked the post. I honestly don't know whether it lasts longer.
4. Assuming the finish is prepped (as the OP's was) it isn't any harder to apply a coating than a wax. Wax: apply with applicator, wait for it to haze, wipe off with microfiber towel. Coating: apply with applicator, wait for it to flash, wipe off with microfiber towels. So yes, I am doubling down on that.

I've been on this board for years posting: results I've gotten (including with waxes, sealants, and yes ceramic coatings), product reviews, answering other's questions, and even trying to help new members with a "BITOG Detail and Wax - Top Picks" thread that you see as a sticky at the top of the forum. I haven't intentionally misquoted anyone, I haven't insisted that liking a post means something it doesn't, and I'm not propping up one product forsaking all others. I've got plenty of credibility.
 
Messages
12
Location
New York
If people are reading and comprehending, I'm happy to be judged on the content of my posts.

1. What you attribute to me as a quote is not a quote from any of my posts. I would never use the word "cuz", but I did state that waxes are highly susceptible to heat and UV because they are; 476 is a blend of synthetic and natural waxes.
2. Correct, I didn't say 476 won't last a long time.
The effort is worth the longevity
There are plenty of sealants that will last longer than 476. ALL wax is highly susceptible to heat and UV.
You did not say directly 476 doesn't a long time. However we were discussing durability and you pointed the above out. The implication made is that 476 doesn't last very long like a traditional carunuba wax. That's how your sentence is framed. You can't go from "476 is a wax but waxes are susceptible to heat/uv" and then say "it lasts a long time". Those sentences directly contradict each other.

3. Show us where I agreed Seal and Shine lasts longer than 476. Since when does simply liking a post where someone mentions Seal and Shine constitute agreeing it lasts longer? Seal and Shine is an effective product with extremely impressive chemical resistance, worthy of consideration by many people, so I liked the post. I honestly don't know whether it lasts longer.
It's good but FK 1000 lasts longer IME.
So does ICE seal n shine

3. One member mentioned FK 1000 lasting longer in his experience. The very next post says "so does seal and shine" which clearly suggests he thinks SnS lasts longer. By liking this you agree it lasts longer. It doesn't matter if you actually feel that way or not, in the context of his post and what he said you're agreeing it lasts longer.

I agree Seal and Shine is amazing for many reasons. However, for the sake of conversation he did not say "Seal and Shine is an easy alternative that gives great results." All he suggested was it lasts longer and you liked that. This is very simple reading comprehension.

4. Assuming the finish is prepped (as the OP's was) it isn't any harder to apply a coating than a wax. Wax: apply with applicator, wait for it to haze, wipe off with microfiber towel. Coating: apply with applicator, wait for it to flash, wipe off with microfiber towels. So yes, I am doubling down on that.

You're entitled to your opinion. Very few detailers, either professionals or hobbyists would agree though.
 
Messages
2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
Those sentences do not contradict each other. It can last a long time while still having a higher susceptibility to the sun than a purely synthetic sealant.

Liking a post does not mean I'm making a declaratory statement other than I like that he mentioned it. You sound worse than many of our wives with logic like that: "By liking this you agree it lasts longer." Get out of here.

I've applied many waxes, tough ones and easy ones. I've also applied ceramic coatings. I'll take CQuartz over Lusso Oro any day of the week for ease of use. Once the prep is done the steps are quite similar as you see. If 476 is the end-all, be-all to you, then perhaps you've never applied a real ceramic coating. Those of us (including professionals or hobbyists) who have several coatings under our belts will absolutely agree that coatings are not all that intimidating and are actually pretty friendly to use. Even if one somehow manages to mess up a coating the experience is no worse than utterly terrible one the OP (who I feel bad for for having to go through all that nonsense) had.
 
Messages
23,696
Location
CA
I disagree there are other products that provide a better gloss, will last just as long, and are easier to apply. 476 is not difficult to apply AT ALL. Anyone who claims it is isn't using it correctly. I have yet to use ANY product that lasts as long...
Many people use water beading as an indicator of protection. Not sure if that is an accurate means, but I guess it is what we have to work with.

How is the water beading of collinite after 7-8 months? I took this clip of a family member’s car last night after a normal wash. It is wearing CQuartz UK 3.0 and Gliss.

 
Messages
232
Location
New Bedford, MA
I have pretty good water beading after 6-7 months with Collinite 845 during and after the winter. Granted if we do get a nice warmer day during winter and I can wash the car I will wash using Meguiars wash and wax to try and boost it some, or spray Duragloss aqua wax on it while drying it off.

after winter I will strip the wax off and lay down another coat of 845, then do again before winter

using Duragloss 601/105 on my wife’s Altima comparing the two and they both hold up pretty well for me in MA
 
Messages
2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
Many people use water beading as an indicator of protection. Not sure if that is an accurate means, but I guess it is what we have to work with.

How is the water beading of collinite after 7-8 months? I took this clip of a family member’s car last night after a normal wash. It is wearing CQuartz UK 3.0 and Gliss.

Over the years I've loved to sample different LSPs, I've got tons of barely used paste wax and half-used bottles of sealant on my shelf. I have never come across anything close to a true ceramic coating (CQ UK 3.0 and Gliss in my case) in terms of sustaining protection. Sure you could make the case that X wax or Y sealant is still working after Z months but none of them will maintain the level of gloss and beading that the coating does and it's not even close.
 
Messages
10,082
Location
OH
Over the years I've loved to sample different LSPs, I've got tons of barely used paste wax and half-used bottles of sealant on my shelf. I have never come across anything close to a true ceramic coating (CQ UK 3.0 and Gliss in my case) in terms of sustaining protection. Sure you could make the case that X wax or Y sealant is still working after Z months but none of them will maintain the level of gloss and beading that the coating does and it's not even close.
You're comparing apples to oranges. A $25 wax applied by the vehicle owner is hardly comparable to a ceramic coating that costs several hundred $$$ and needs to be applied by a professional. Comparing apples to apples, I think Collinite is the best product out there...
 
Messages
232
Location
New Bedford, MA
Collinite 476 and now just 845 works for me. Easy to apply and take off. Good protection. Last a decent amount of time.
Works good enough for me. Have no desire to try anything else
 
Messages
23,696
Location
CA
You're comparing apples to oranges. A $25 wax applied by the vehicle owner is hardly comparable to a ceramic coating that costs several hundred $$$ and needs to be applied by a professional. Comparing apples to apples, I think Collinite is the best product out there...
I'm not a professional and my cost on product for that vehicle above was probably around $25.
 
Messages
2,110
Location
Tinton Falls NJ
You're comparing apples to oranges. A $25 wax applied by the vehicle owner is hardly comparable to a ceramic coating that costs several hundred $$$ and needs to be applied by a professional. Comparing apples to apples, I think Collinite is the best product out there...
I'm not trying to be mean but you're out of your depth with several of the comments you make in the detailing forum.

As The Critic said the cost per vehicle can be quite low; buy with a coupon code and get the right size bottle. The cost for my M340i was a little higher because I bought small bottles but still under $60.

And as I said earlier, a ceramic coating is no harder to apply than a wax like 476. You (Grampi) could apply a ceramic coating yourself and achieve 100% success. The "money" is in the prep, which many of us do ourselves, and the coating itself is pretty straightforward: apply with applicator, wait for it to flash/rainbow, buff with a MF towel...sounds an awful lot like a wax, how 'bout that, who would've thought!
 
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