cold weather harmful to unopened oil?
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NO other tan at most some polymer settling which will "mix" right in upon use.
bruce
bruce
I've had a quart of QS winter synth blend 5w30 in the deepfreeze for 2 weeks now. I don't know why I put it there.
Hope not, my Esso bulk station leaves oil in cold storage all winter, we get +10C chinooks down to -40C winter here. We can bask in banana belt with winter chinooks and few days later shivering like dogs crapping razor blades when an artic high moves in.
At home I store oil at room temp, covered so no sun can hit it, I know, fanatical. I often wonder if these extreme weather changes that can occur within days can cause condensation etc in oil stored in these uncontrolled weather extremes?
Cyprs
At home I store oil at room temp, covered so no sun can hit it, I know, fanatical. I often wonder if these extreme weather changes that can occur within days can cause condensation etc in oil stored in these uncontrolled weather extremes?
Cyprs
be no more harmful to the oil. compared to the oil in your car engine overnight and thats all around the cold engine metal parts too. so it would get colder than in a plastic bottle.
if your worried go buy some baby bottle warmers. then stick your oil in that to keep it snug as a bug in a rug
if your worried go buy some baby bottle warmers. then stick your oil in that to keep it snug as a bug in a rug
Actually, the metal engine and plastic bottle, when both completely cooled outside, would be the same temperature. Metal only feels colder to the touch because of its higher heat capacity....
In other words, It takes more heat (per unit mass of metal) from your hand before the temperature of the metal rises than plastic can @ the same temperature...thus, it feels colder.
/Nerd Talk
Wax and gel formation in oil is permanent and diminishes the motor oil's beneficial properties. Part of the API certification is testing just this property.
The problem is more evident in dino oils. The time it takes to degrade is both temperature and time dependent. I do not know the specifics for a given oil but an example is this:
-100 hrs. at zero F will cause the same amount of wax and gelation as
-1,000 hrs at 10 F and
-10,000 hrs at 20 F.
This is why I always say to change oil at least once a year and late every spring with fresh oil. It never gets below 50 in my garage in Florida so I am not worried about keeping oil for a year or two but I would not get or store more than this amount.
See ASTM:Test Method D 5133 (Gelation Index)
aehaas
The problem is more evident in dino oils. The time it takes to degrade is both temperature and time dependent. I do not know the specifics for a given oil but an example is this:
-100 hrs. at zero F will cause the same amount of wax and gelation as
-1,000 hrs at 10 F and
-10,000 hrs at 20 F.
This is why I always say to change oil at least once a year and late every spring with fresh oil. It never gets below 50 in my garage in Florida so I am not worried about keeping oil for a year or two but I would not get or store more than this amount.
See ASTM:Test Method D 5133 (Gelation Index)
aehaas
Wax will precipitate out of and re-dissolve back into solution per temperature. Per ASTM Test Method D 5133:
"The particular conditions of the Scanning Brookfield Technique in D 5133 include preheating the sample to a temperature of 90° C ± 2° C for at least ninety minutes to remove any gelation "memory" [bold emphasis mine] from previous cold temperature exposure."
[ November 26, 2005, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
"The particular conditions of the Scanning Brookfield Technique in D 5133 include preheating the sample to a temperature of 90° C ± 2° C for at least ninety minutes to remove any gelation "memory" [bold emphasis mine] from previous cold temperature exposure."
[ November 26, 2005, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Well this is definitely more interesting than previous how to store oil threads, most of which focused on how long. I feel very confident my 192-quart stash (which I had figured at 5 years worth, but may now go 6 or 7 years if my longer OCIs continue to work out) will still be good when I use it. BTW, I store my oil in the cellar which ranges from about 40 to 70 F over the course of a year.
This applys:
Evaluation of Oil Performance Using the Tu High Temperature Engine Test With a View to Extending Oil Drain Intervals, Bouvier et al:
Oxidation and thickening is the limiting factor for oil longevity. Generally modern oils thin only 10 percent then thicken up to 60 percent within as little as 96 hrs. of operation ( -in the accelerated test engine. Let me comment that all test criteria are designed to mimic real engine operating conditions but at an accelerated rate).
There is accelerated acidification and corrosive wear that occurs.
Oil thickening was also time dependent. Thickening at 30,000 km was 2 times more when done over 21 months than over a 10 month period. (Change your oil every spring as I suggested before).
aehaas
Evaluation of Oil Performance Using the Tu High Temperature Engine Test With a View to Extending Oil Drain Intervals, Bouvier et al:
Oxidation and thickening is the limiting factor for oil longevity. Generally modern oils thin only 10 percent then thicken up to 60 percent within as little as 96 hrs. of operation ( -in the accelerated test engine. Let me comment that all test criteria are designed to mimic real engine operating conditions but at an accelerated rate).
There is accelerated acidification and corrosive wear that occurs.
Oil thickening was also time dependent. Thickening at 30,000 km was 2 times more when done over 21 months than over a 10 month period. (Change your oil every spring as I suggested before).
aehaas
will1780's original question pertained to unopened, sealed, NEW oil held in storage. Your post above references, "Generally modern oils thin only 10 percent then thicken up to 60 percent within as little as 96 hrs. of operation ( -in the accelerated test engine." The information you provided (initial viscosity shear-back IN USE followed by gradual viscosity increase as oxidation products build from further USE) concerns an entirely unrelated matter to the thread's topic.
The way I understand it, is that in modern oils, where the basestock has limited solubility, some additives might actually come out of solution at really cold temperatures, like -20F or below for extended periods of time. In an engine, this isn't a big issue, because the oil is heated and agitated every time it runs and everything gets mixed back together. In a bottle, some ingredients might drop to the bottom or rise to the top. If you pour in the whole bottle everything will be OK, but adding a partial bottle might throw things off a little. I have moved my stash indoors for this very reason.
Maybe I'm working with faulty information, but I feel safer keeping my stored oil above freezing.
Maybe I'm working with faulty information, but I feel safer keeping my stored oil above freezing.
Maybe it would be more useful to quote a portion of the article succinctly:
Evaluation of Oil Performance Using the Tu High Temperature Engine Test With a View to Extending Oil Drain Intervals, Bouvier et al: Oil thickening was time dependent. Thickening at 30,000 km was 2 times more when done over 21 months than over a 10 month period. (This shows a time dependency of oil thickness).
I do think this applies as does the gelation point I made earlier. And so I recommend (based on these and other information in my experience) that oil should be stored at room temperature and even then not indefinitely. That is my opinion for this thread. There have been other SAE articles (I am a member) but I am not going to dig them up at this time.
This is why I always say to change oil at least once a year and late every spring with fresh oil. For will1780 I recommend you get that oil to a room temperature location NOW.
aehaas
Smart people learn from their mistakes.
Very smart people learn from other peoples' mistakes.
Evaluation of Oil Performance Using the Tu High Temperature Engine Test With a View to Extending Oil Drain Intervals, Bouvier et al: Oil thickening was time dependent. Thickening at 30,000 km was 2 times more when done over 21 months than over a 10 month period. (This shows a time dependency of oil thickness).
I do think this applies as does the gelation point I made earlier. And so I recommend (based on these and other information in my experience) that oil should be stored at room temperature and even then not indefinitely. That is my opinion for this thread. There have been other SAE articles (I am a member) but I am not going to dig them up at this time.
This is why I always say to change oil at least once a year and late every spring with fresh oil. For will1780 I recommend you get that oil to a room temperature location NOW.
aehaas
Smart people learn from their mistakes.
Very smart people learn from other peoples' mistakes.
I think I'll rely on Bruce381s input since he works in the industry. I've stored oil in my cold garage for many years during below 0 weather. Guess what, NO PROBLEMS. No gelling, no wax precipitation, no nothing.
Industry types were surveyed as to shelf "life of lube oils" and answers ranged from 1 year to 15 years most common was I think 5 years. All I have ever seen on retain samples we keep for 2 years
plant storage temp 50-85F then distroy is some at most "sediment" which due to color I always thought was DI package (ZDDP) or Calcium Sulfonate.
bruce
plant storage temp 50-85F then distroy is some at most "sediment" which due to color I always thought was DI package (ZDDP) or Calcium Sulfonate.
bruce
Sedimentation of particles held in suspension is no problem if we shake (as I do) the container before putting the lube in the car. The stuff at the bottom may also be a precipitate of additives rendering them useless or even worse, corrosive in some way.
Regardless of the length of time it seems that many people do believe oil has a shelf life. And I would guess that the same sample of people would lower their estimated shelf life if they knew the oil was kept below freezing.
aehaas
Regardless of the length of time it seems that many people do believe oil has a shelf life. And I would guess that the same sample of people would lower their estimated shelf life if they knew the oil was kept below freezing.
aehaas
aehaas
All that is true as a side note with the industrial metalworking fluids we make I like at most a 1 year self life since they have very high additive levels >50% in some cases and the additives are all very chemically active and do not like each other sometme.
PCMO's are basicly Inert compared to these fluids so perhaps 5 years is a good number and/or
treat your oils as a fine wine avoiding temp extremes.
bruce
All that is true as a side note with the industrial metalworking fluids we make I like at most a 1 year self life since they have very high additive levels >50% in some cases and the additives are all very chemically active and do not like each other sometme.
PCMO's are basicly Inert compared to these fluids so perhaps 5 years is a good number and/or
treat your oils as a fine wine avoiding temp extremes.
bruce
Darn it, now you guys have me kicking the notion of a climate controlled oil cellar. Is it really that bad to store oil in cold temps?
"Is it really that bad to store oil in cold temps?"
Practical purposes I would not worry about it.
At most a small fallout ot VII or DI package and IMHO NOt a problem.
Stress out more about keeping oil topped off and changing out at a "normal" OCI.
bruce
Practical purposes I would not worry about it.
At most a small fallout ot VII or DI package and IMHO NOt a problem.
Stress out more about keeping oil topped off and changing out at a "normal" OCI.
bruce
Would it be a good idea to at least shake the bottles prior to using? I've never done that in the past and never seen any precipitated "anything" chillin at the bottom of an oil bottle. I did see some weird lookin stuff at the bottom of several bottles of Castrol Hypoy C gear oil one time. My BITOG OCD kicked in and I contemplated draining out the brand new stuff from my transaxle and refilling with new stuff but I slapped myself in the face and came to my senses!
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