Clinton Labor Sec:"People who follow God are worse than Terrorists"

[Al]

Acouple of years I would have been outraged. But somehow I'm not surprised anymore.

God Worse than Terrorists

Alzheimers anyone??

[ July 08, 2004, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]

 

[Whimsey]

It must be the water in Massachusetts and how it affects Democrats. Just look at Kerry and the "swimmer" Kennedy to see/hear fine examples of Mass. politicians

. And I resent you saying it must be Alzheimers. I know many fine people who succumbed to the horrors of Alzheimers and still make/made more sense than most modern Democrats do now a days

.

Whimsey

 

[keith]

I pulled this out of the link:

"The true battle will be between modern civilization and anti-modernists; between those who believe in the primacy of the individual and those who believe that human beings owe their allegiance and identity to a higher authority..."

Strange to hear a liberal talk about the value of the individual.

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." [Hillary Clinton, 1993]

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ORDINARY Americans ..." [President Bill Clinton, 'USA Today' March 11, 1993: Page 2A]

"Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all." [Nikita Khrushchev , February 25, 1956 20th Congress of the Communist Party]

Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good"

Keith.

 

[MAJA]

I wouldnt take too much stock in what this guy is saying. He is just pooping out the wrong end. Especially when you consider his former boss........

 

[Bob Woods]

While I don't agree with him completely. I do agree that religious zealots who comitt acts of terrorism in the name of their God are a big danger to world peace. Whats the difference if one kills in the name of god or in the name of some political belief, people are still dead and the survivors still extract revenge and the killing goes on.

 

[buster]

quote:

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I do agree that religious zealots who comitt acts of terrorism in the name of their God are a big danger to world peace

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Agree 100%. I can't stand religious fanaticism personally. The fact that their are people who think they know god, speak to god and are living out god's plan are wackos, period. I do believe in a higher being/creator. I've never met him, might or might not ever meet him, but do believe he/she exists. If everyone would keep their selfish religious beliefs to their self, and stop jamming their beliefs down everyone's friggin throats, the world would be a better place, period. This goes for all fanatics whether from the Midwestern bible belt or radical Muslims in the Mid East. Get over it and live your friggin life. It's not religion itself, but the extreme positions people take on it.

[ July 08, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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people who....are living out god's plan are wackos, period.....Get over it and live your friggin life.

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I'm trying, but people keep calling me a wacko because I believe God has a plan for us....

Listen their a HUGE difference in existing under a loving God that rewards good and is most of the time not understandable at all and knowing something good lies beyond this existence....vs. trying to get to the virgins early because you don't fear death and in doing so taking out inncocents...

 

[buster]

quote:

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Listen their a HUGE difference in existing under a loving God that rewards good and is most of the time not understandable at all and knowing something good lies beyond this existence....vs. trying to get to the virgins early because you don't fear death and in doing so taking out inncocents...

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I agree Pablo. I don't have a problem with very religious people, when they keep it personal. But when they try and dictate what they think is "godlike" or "right" in their own world and push it on to the entire populous, then I have a problem.

 

[MV Oil Fanatic]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:

quote:

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Listen their a HUGE difference in existing under a loving God that rewards good and is most of the time not understandable at all and knowing something good lies beyond this existence....vs. trying to get to the virgins early because you don't fear death and in doing so taking out inncocents...

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I agree Pablo. I don't have a problem with very religious people, when they keep it personal. But when they try and dictate what they think is "godlike" or "right" in their own world and push it on to the entire populous, then I have a problem.

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Wow! Heavy! Heavy... Metal and baggage to be checked at the entry (to heaven)... just to make things lighter, OK, Gang?

 

[Tim]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Woods:
I do agree that religious zealots who comitt acts of terrorism in the name of their God are a big danger to world peace.

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I wonder if that might ought to be a lower-case "g"....


Tim

 

[Tim]

quote:

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This goes for all fanatics whether from the Midwestern bible belt or radical Muslims in the Mid East. Get over it and live your friggin life. It's not religion itself, but the extreme positions people take on it. [/QB]

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I think you are guilty of what you acuse others of.

Because you do not take religion extremely seriously, you cannot allow anyone else to. This is, as you say, cramming your belief down someone else's throat.

The two religions you specifically mention, Islam and Christianity, command the followers to spread the message. You evidently do not want to allow for that??

What's the big deal? Can't you let folks be passionate about something? Heck, we fight over motor oil

Tim

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Buster, I talked to God, he drives a Hemi. What do you think of that?

 

[Bob Woods]

I thought he had a driver!!!

 

[STSinNYC]

Robert Reich gives you a good look at what the most aggressive secular humanists want for America: not freedom of/for religion, but freedom FROM religion, e.g. an active effort to suppress the place of religion in public dialogue.

I'm an evangelical Christian (one of many in NYC, more than people think). I fully understand and respect Buster's concern. I hope to influence others to consider the Gospel by the life I lead. No one is convinced by being compelled, or threatened.

Friends, freedom of religion is a uniquely western PROTESTANT Christian concept. Where it exists in the world is not because of some enlightenment humanist concept (which itself developed freely in Protestant-dominated countries). Remember - the French Revolution was atheistic. Freedom of speech is utterly tied to freedom of religion in our society.

What I ask friends such as Buster to consider is what kind of society we would have without Biblical morality as a critical part of our foundation. Do you trust individual moral judgement to determine the social fabric? Do you really? A college president said to a friend of ours just a few weeks ago that he thinks in 100 years, Americans will view pedophilia the way they view homosexuality today (e.g. becoming acceptable). Are those the values you think are sound for our plural democracy?

The moral character of a nation is indescribably important. Look what happened in Germany in the 1930s when the society there came close to collapse. Look what happended to the orphans in Romania. Do you remeber seeing the story that came out last year from Iraq. There was a prison in Baghdad for children. They were found naked, without food or water, standing in their own waste. Their only crime was that their parents had been considered to be disloyal to Saddam's regime.

Think very carefully before you join the bandwagon of supporting individual morality as superior to a communal standard based on long experience.

 

[Pablo]

Everyone knows GOD drives an El Camino. So are you telling me he took out the big block and wedged in a hemi?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by motorguy222:

If you dont agree with something or dont want to listen to it,walk away,change the channel or close the door.No one is twisting your arm or holding a gun to your head and making you listen to something.

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Do you just walk away everytime someone gets in your space and annoys you?

Do you realize or care that to a non-believer incessant babbling about your god can be more annoying than a yapping dag or a 1000 watt car stereo that rattles windows with the bass from rap music.

 

[nortones2]

Re "We believe that by studying the Bible(Gods Word),", Do you mean the old testament or the new? If you mean the old testament, why not the new testament? If you follow both, are they not somewhat opposed in approach?

 

[STSinNYC]

Very good question from Nortones. We see the OT and NT as being God's integrated and harmonized revelation. God's redemptive plan is foreshadowed throughout the OT and brought to fulfillment in the NT. Christ and the Apostles explain the meaning of the law and how God redeems us through the Atonement.

The Bible is really about Christ. Humans were created to be in perfect harmony with God, but were disobedient, trusting ourselves more than Him. The redemptive work began there, through Abraham's line; through Israel, through the commands of the law, faithfulness to the only true God, obedience in faith; through the prophets, promisng redemption not only for Israel but for the world; to fulfillment in Christ, who reconciles us to God by His death, through faith by grace and obedience.

 

[STSinNYC]

XS650 also makes a very good point. Our whole lives are what are witness should be. Exhibiting a character of faithfulness, obedience, constancy in truth, compassion. Believing and trusting in truth, holding to it, without condemning. Not easy. Requires constant prayer, trust, holding to the long view in the frustrations of each day. I live in the capitol of secular culture, where many people deeply dislike Biblical Christianity. Takes a lot of patience, and trust. I'm am not always the witness I should be.

 

[labman]

Being a good witness is difficult. First and foremost, you must live your faith, always difficult, and more so in today's anything goes culture. Then you need to walk a narrow line between being a witness, and being a nuisance. If you are irritating people, it won't bring them to Christ. Of course, even quietly wearing a small cross or dove offends some people. Of course it offends me when people brag about their sexual exploits and dishonest dealings and disparage Christianity.

I am afraid that along with too many others, I fall in with the lady in the one joke. A speaker is saying Presbyterians on the average ask somebody to come to church once every 23 years. The lady jumps up and says ''That can't be, I have been a Presbyterian for 40 years and I have never asked anybody to come to church.'' Now before anybody accuses me of being anti Presbyterian, I am an ordained elder and I have served as commissioner to Presbytery. I even took my dogs to Presbytery meetings.