N.M.O.C. - Part II

Messages
671
Location
Houston
Okay, I've been thinking about this "run it until it explodes experiment" a great deal. Many of you had some interesting comments. There were some folks who suggested that I use the cheapest SL grade dino juice and filter combo possible (something I find VERY interesting), and there were others who pointed out the ethical problems inherent with such a test being run in an emergency vehicle (who can argue their point?), and there were others who would like me to do something similar to what Paradise Garage is doing (I do not have any desire to steal their mojo!). I have some slightly different ideas which might be of interest to the folks on this board. Here are my thoughts: PLAN #1 2000 Crown Vic Police Interceptor, 123k - used for police patrol duties  - The markings have been photochopped off for privacy reasons - courtesy of a lunatic on another web forum who forced me to become more "anonymous." Rather than running the car into the ground, I think it might be interesting to do a test very similar to what Paradise Garage is doing. I could run the oil changes in the following order: 1. Royal Purple 2. Red Line 3. German Castrol Syntec (where do you buy it?) 4. Mobil 1 5. Your choice goes here....and so forth. They run UOA at 1,000 mile intervals and do not change the filter until it UOAs show it is necessary. My plan would be to run regular oil filter changes - 3k, 5k, or whatever you guys would like to see - and top off the oil level as needed. At each filter change, I would send a sample of the oil off for analysis. Once the oil reaches a predetermined point where the UOA numbers indicate the oil has cratered, then I pull the plug and move on to the next oil. I could get in touch with Paradise Garage and use the same determining factors they use to discontinue the test, that way we keep it somewhat consistent. I would follow the same procedures they follow: new spark plugs before each sample, new air filter before each sample, and a 3k "rinse" interval between samples. These types of tests take a long time for the results to come in, so I think it's possible that many of us would have an interest in the reverse order concept. Does anyone know if Paradise Garage would object to this idea??? I'd like to think that we could sort of team up on with one another - everyone would come out more informed that way. Plus, it would give the members of this site a chance to compare the differences between [synthetic oil company "A"] on a relatively new Chevrolet pushrod engine and [synthetic oil company "A"] on a well broken-in Ford SOHC engine. Testing would begin at 125k. PLAN #2 1996 Crown Vic Police Interceptor, 147k - used as my daily to-and-from school, the grocery store, etc. car  - This car will be the dino juice tester. Following similar procedures as PLAN #1, I would be interested in running whatever cheap-A$$ dino juices you folks would like to see put to the test. I would follow the same testing procedures as before - new plugs, filter, and "rinse" phase - but the idea would be to run these oils for a relatively long duration and then perform a UOA on them at the end of the test just to see how well they held up. I think 7,500 miles or 10,000 miles might be of interest. My only concern here is how makeup oil might skew the results a little bit. Plus, I'd really like to punish these oils, so maybe longer drain intervals with occasional filter changes might be the best plan. Does anyone have any ideas for the DINO-saur testing procedures??? Of course, I'd have to appeal for some sort of financial help for the cost of the UOAs. I support a family of five on a cop's salary, so it wouldn't be financially feasible for me to run UOAs this often. [I dont know] Testing would begin at 150k. As stated previously, this would be the backup plan for both cars since they use virtually identical engines:  - [ July 31, 2004, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: AstroVic ]
 
Messages
7,409
Location
Austin, TX
I would pick a modified plan 2. Use dinos since you'll probably cover more products in less time. I'd standardized on a low cost oil filter like Super Techs, stocking up to cover many of the tests consistently. You could cut the OUAs down to 3K, 5K, 7K miles, if it last that long, and use 1K miles flush intervals. Of course this is a modular Ford engine so it's UOAs will probably look great even if you were to use, used MacDonald's freedom fry oil. [Big Grin]
 

AstroVic

Thread starter
Messages
671
Location
Houston
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo: Do what you want.
Um, okay. I guess I was hoping for a little more input. Point taken on including AMSOIL, however. This isn't being done solely for *my* benefit; if it was, I'd just slap Royal Purple or Mobil 1 in there, conduct regular OCIs and forget about it. I'm here for the same reason most of us are here - we have a genuine interest in finding out what works best in a variety of cars. It just so happens that a LOT of people drive Ford modular V8s, and since I have a spare engine that will work in either one of my cars should they ultimately fail (which I highly doubt will happen), I figured it might be fun to see what turns up. Are you willing to donate some AMSOIL for the test, Pablo? If so, I certainly wouldn't turn you down! [Smile]
 
Messages
11,247
Location
PA
Just give up some long oci UOAs. Any brand, any kind. Forget flushing, etc, just do a 1:1 oil to filter change. Maybe do 2 intervals of the same oil back-to-back, summer and winter to give the best comparison of brands and kinds. I ran GC for 6mo, even up to 11k in my car for 4 times strait without a second thought. 11k on dino or diesel-rated would be interesting. Try that long on Mobil 1 10w-30 for a benchmark. Edit: I wonder if Mobil 1 can go twice as long as Motorcraft with a good UOA as it's price is double, inc a second filter. There's an experiment.
 
Messages
47,788
Location
Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Sorry, I'm not in the ecomomic position to give oil away to anyone who wants to run a "test". I will sell at my cost if you go through with this, though. I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$ by telling you to do what you want. I just think eventually you'll need to decide a path. As for "flushing", I think it's necessary for a more pure test, for political reasons and thirdly possible (but very improbable) chemical interactions (plus or minus).
 

AstroVic

Thread starter
Messages
671
Location
Houston
No offense taken, Pablo. [Smile] I will soon choose a path and go with it. I'm interested in pushing some oils to (and beyond) their limits. I think it would make for some interesting reading. [Smile] Anyone else care to chime in with their thoughts?
 
Messages
434
Location
Montgomery, NY
For plan #1, I'd like to see how German Castrol would fare if you can get it. As far as I know it is only available at Auto Zone if there are any in your area. As for plan #2, how about Havoline in either 5w-30 or 10w-30 with the Super Tech oil filters, both readily and inexpensively available at Wal Mart.
 
Messages
39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
Have you considered a "time weighted" OCI? Your service duty probably doesn't vary much if you split the OCI in the middle of the summer (assuming some school related duty-pehaps not). Most here ..appear to adhere to this type of OCI. There's no other explanation for all the 4-6k UOAs ..they just must find the urge to change their oil at a given season ..or seasons. It's a shame both engines don't see identical duty. This would be a great way to compare a time weighted vs. mileage OCI. Then again ..it could be an oportunity to compare the "lack of benefit" to changing them at the same time even with the varried service. That is, both changed at 6 months service ..regardless of mileage. The lighter duty vehicle should have a better UOA commensurate with its less stressful service. I would however like to see at least one aspect of the test placed on the same plane ..so to speak. Either use the same oil ..or do the same OCI (either time or mileage weighted both dyno or synth) so that we aren't dealing with multiple axis data points that have no comparison between each other. Right now the only comparable element is the car and the engine (with different miles and far different service uses). You can always put dino or syth in both vehicles at any time to compare the respective effects. No matter what course you choose ..someone is going to have an different angle that they would like to see ..since they're looking for their persoanal data as an outcome. It will be like Bob's filter test. A decent amount of useful data will be produced no matter what ..it just won't be anywhere near "all inclusive" in its scope. If you decide, and can find, Delvac 1 (SHC marine -preferred) ..I'll chip in to "buy it down" to a cheaper competitor (like Rotella at about 1/2 price). You are, after all, gaining some benefit. I would probably chip in for at least one UOA. When the experiment starts ..set up a PayPal account. We can then say "I'll pick up the Delvac 1 UOA" and what not. There's your criteria ..let those who want to see a given oil "ante up" (at least in part) to fund the test. Now some will most assuredly "slide" on this ..but there's enough dedicated lube freaks here that have some humanity left in them (and a typical slush fund in their wallets). What can it cost between three or four (5 or 6 [I dont know] ) members per OCI/UOA?? [ August 01, 2004, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
 
Messages
698
Location
MA
I would like to second John Brownings recomendation of Synergyn. Id would be nice to see more data on this stuff. Ive been using it in my WRX for about 5k miles and Im very happy with it. I wouldnt classify running extended drains of syn oil with UOAs at abuse. The fact is, with cruisers out there with over 100k on them, there are a number of things that could go wrong at anytime. In a more perfect world no emergency vehicles would have more than 75K on them. For the white car extending the drains on dino Sl oils sounds like a good idea. We could be surprised, especially if you use lube control .
 

AstroVic

Thread starter
Messages
671
Location
Houston
Okay, I've decided what I'm going to do. I'm going to run Royal Purple 10W-30 exclusively in this car for a variety of intervals - 5k, 7.5k, 10k - and I will post UOA results as they come in. I will also run a variety of oil filter changes to see how that affects things. A lot of folks on this board dog Royal Purple, but I'm willing to bet that this stuff will surprise a lot of people. I'm also going to run Royal Purple 10W-30 in my 4.6L 1996 Crown Vic P71 and my 2000 Mustang GT 4.6L. It'll be interesting to see how it all turns out.
 
Messages
494
Location
Washington DC area
First off sorry you have to take measures to protect your anonymity. So much respect to you for protecting your area. Secondly I would highly recommend SuperTech. IMO it's the best bang-for-your-buck oil. And I think you would do well to use ST filters for the duration of all tests. It's an even better bang-for-buck product and it's cheap and easy to get.
 
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