Agreed, I'm at that point where I've got no tolerance for rust. I owned a lot of beaters in the past, and can afford better now.
Checking out older minivans
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Thanks for the heads-up! If we go with a Toyota, this will be one of my first tasks.
I thought of that, and searched AutoTrader.ca, which gives the option to filter for the 4-banger. They seem to be non-existent in this part of the world (which is ironic, in that this must be the flattest place in Canada).
The Sedona was good. Very versatile interior, inoffensive styling, good power, reasonable fuel economy for size, reliable in the four years it's been in the family, zero oil consumption, and a backyard mechanic's dream. I like the cartridge oil filter up top. You don't have to remove a plastic splash guard to drain the oil or rad. The tranny pan has a drain plug. I haven't seen any rust on any of these around here. I would certainly buy another, but they're relatively rare. I am a bit afraid of any DOHC V6 with a timing chain, but that's not specific to the Kia.
The Transit appeals, but Ford has a bad reputation for not supporting older vehicles. Once the dealer-only parts are gone, you're hooped.
I looked around at kijiji for a bit and found this one in Brandon, MB if that's close enough to you. It is a 2011 with about 100k miles for the same price as the 07 you mentioned in your OP
Hey, well done! I'll follow up on that one. Thanks so much!
Thought I'd update this thread. Our street was torn up for over two months, and we had no access to our driveway, so we quit looking for awhile; I couldn't stand the thought of not being able to change all the fluids on a new-to-us vehicle. (It's a BITOG thing ...) We hauled a lot of groceries farther than we would have liked for a few weeks. And then I crashed my bike and wrecked my thumb and couldn't drive for a few weeks. (Our Mazda 5 is manual.)
But we've back at it now. Found a couple of low-mileage Grand Caravans in good shape, but they turned out to be the base-model CVPs. I'm fine with steel wheels, and in general would like to avoid a lot of bells and whistles, but found out that these base models have fixed (non-operable) windows in the sliding doors, and have no provision for a roof rack. (Apparently there are side-curtain airbags and sensors up top, so one does not want to drill blindly through the roof! Not sure I'm on for dropping the headliner, either.) The bench seat in the middle might be problematic for two car seats as well. It's in great shape, though, a 2016 with low miles (only 83K km), and the price is great, so we'll have to think it over. Might be better to wait for the next trim level up though, and pay an extra thousand or two.
There's a nicely equipped '13 in a rural dealership, and the owner is related to a friend of ours, but it's priced crazily @ $14K. (Or maybe that's fair, but it seems to me that depreciation of only 40 - 50% on an 8-year-old vehicle is wishful thinking.)
The '07 Sienna we looked at in the summer is still there, still unchanged @ $10K. I'd say $8K would be fair.
We did want to look at the 4-cylinder Sienna Slacktide found, but Brandon was a COVID hotspot at that time, and my wife didn't want me going out there. There was another 4-banger at a lot in town, but it disappeared pretty quickly. They are really rare here on the Prairies.
So there you have it - they say no one wants minivans any more, and that they're a dying segment, but you wouldn't know it here by the prices.
To be continued ...
But we've back at it now. Found a couple of low-mileage Grand Caravans in good shape, but they turned out to be the base-model CVPs. I'm fine with steel wheels, and in general would like to avoid a lot of bells and whistles, but found out that these base models have fixed (non-operable) windows in the sliding doors, and have no provision for a roof rack. (Apparently there are side-curtain airbags and sensors up top, so one does not want to drill blindly through the roof! Not sure I'm on for dropping the headliner, either.) The bench seat in the middle might be problematic for two car seats as well. It's in great shape, though, a 2016 with low miles (only 83K km), and the price is great, so we'll have to think it over. Might be better to wait for the next trim level up though, and pay an extra thousand or two.
There's a nicely equipped '13 in a rural dealership, and the owner is related to a friend of ours, but it's priced crazily @ $14K. (Or maybe that's fair, but it seems to me that depreciation of only 40 - 50% on an 8-year-old vehicle is wishful thinking.)
The '07 Sienna we looked at in the summer is still there, still unchanged @ $10K. I'd say $8K would be fair.
We did want to look at the 4-cylinder Sienna Slacktide found, but Brandon was a COVID hotspot at that time, and my wife didn't want me going out there. There was another 4-banger at a lot in town, but it disappeared pretty quickly. They are really rare here on the Prairies.
So there you have it - they say no one wants minivans any more, and that they're a dying segment, but you wouldn't know it here by the prices.
To be continued ...
I prefer a minivan myself. Even though gas prices are going up, I still prefer the utility and ability to carry up to 7 people of needed with enough room. Most 7 passenger suvs can't match the space of a minivan.
I think the 2.7 was only available for 2 model years....and only in the most bare bones CE at that. Semi rare everywhere from what I can see
Yes, only the first two or so years of the 3rd gen - MY 2011 and 2012, not sure about beyond that.
Rare? Quite! Autotrader.ca lists 521 Siennas for sale nationally, 13 of them 4-bangers. But that's misleading - the new hybrids are also 4-bangers, so of used vans, only four are the old 2.7, all MY 2011, all the LE model.
Thank you for the update
I found this Alphard (a JDM minivan) in BC. Canada allows gray market cars at least 15 years old to be imported, whereas down here it's 25 years
If only JDM imports were LHD ...Thank you for the update
I found this Alphard (a JDM minivan) in BC. Canada allows gray market cars at least 15 years old to be imported, whereas down here it's 25 years
The RHD scares me off (thinking of LH turns, for example), although those who drive them here say it's not an issue. Parallel parking, for example, would be a breeze.
My friend in BC recently bought a Mitsu Delica van, diesel, 4WD, and possibly with a manual transmission. He's very happy with it.
During our year in NZ, we drove a JDM van, and really enjoyed it, but of course they drive on the left there.
JDM vehicles are more and more common here, though mostly as a novelty. The very small vans and trucks work well as urban delivery vehicles, and the very narrow width means that the RHD is not a big factor.
They produced them in CE and LE FWD models for two years, 2011 and 2012. If you find one, DON"T BUY IT! Siennas equipped with them are seriously underpowered, 187hp just doesn't cut it in a 4300lb vehicle that has the aerodynamics of a brick. Toyota's retail buyers wouldn't buy them and the dealers didn't want them (they just sat on the lots), so Toyota sold them at a steep discount to the rental car companies. Even then, after awhile the rental car companies balked at buying them because their customers were complaining. That is how I managed to run across one, I rented one for a week. It drives ok in-town, but on the highway it runs out of steam and works like crazy to keep up. Even very small grades cause it to downshift several gears and the poor little engine screams. Holding a steady 70mph on the Interstate is a challenge. Furthermore, Siennas equipped with them don't get any better gas mileage than the V/6 in town, and it is actually worse than the V/6 on the highway.
The Alphard seems perfect for your intended usage, and it's also apparently easier to find than a 4-cylinder Sienna in your area
It's probably worth dealing with the RHD issues to get a 4-cylinder Toyota minivan
You might also like the Mercedes R-Class
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Wow, thanks, I didn't realize the Sienna was that bad with the 2.7.
I read this article on TTAC a few years ago, and recently reread it:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/04/review-toyota-sienna-le-2-7/
I take it with a grain of salt as that writer tended to be quite snarky, and some of the readers' comments mitigated some of the article's venom.
We have owned three minivans that I'm sure the media would have condemned for lack of power. All served us well.
1990 Mazda MPV 2.6 l inline-4 with 121 HP/149 lb-ft. This was a great van to drive, with the same 5-speed manual transmission as was used in the RX-7. The power was completely adequate, even with the van loaded right up. This was totaled in an accident at 326K km, but still ran very well.
1997 Mazda MPV 3.0 l V6 with 155 HP/169 lb-ft. Another winner - this one had the 4-speed Jatco automatic, as the MT was dropped after the '91 MY. Even with the automatic, it had excellent mid-range power - there was a variable intake manifold system that gave a VTEC-like bump at 3600 RPM. More than adequate! This was vandalized and so scrapped at 344K km. The drivetrain was still near perfect.
1995 Mazda Bongo 2.0 l. OK, this one definitely could have used help. A (slightly) sub-2 litre SOHC engine pulling around a 9-passenger van? Really? I remember slogging up a hill on State Hwy 1 in northern New Zealand, and seeing a sign warning drivers to slow to 70 kph or whatever. But at the time we were screaming along in 2nd gear at 40 - 50 kph.
But of course there's a proud history of underpowered vans:
There were the first-gen Dodge and Plymouth vans ("Magic Wagons") with base K-Car engine - a 2.2 l four.
And of course the legendary VW bus, with its little flat air-cooled 4.
And there was the Toyota Previa, with its 2.4 l inline-4.
So by comparison to some of these, my two MPVs felt like rocket ships.
So all that to say, I wasn't too worried about the alleged power deficit in the 3rd-gen Sienna. I figured with the 6-speed automatic, it would be fine, but I've never driven one. It's probably moot anyway - as discussed previously, they are very rare here.
It was only available to meet a price point not improved MPG. It was the same base engine from the Highlander and Venza. Very reliable engine with decent torque.
If I buy a JDM import, it will be an offbeat van with a manual transmission.The Alphard seems perfect for your intended usage, and it's also apparently easier to find than a 4-cylinder Sienna in your area
It's probably worth dealing with the RHD issues to get a 4-cylinder Toyota minivan
You might also like the Mercedes R-Class
Yeah, problem with that site is, if it takes longer than 4 seconds for 0-60 then it's just not a good vehicle. And on this site, if a vehicle can't climb a hill under full load, at full speed, at more than idle, then it must be underpowered.Wow, thanks, I didn't realize the Sienna was that bad with the 2.7.
I read this article on TTAC a few years ago, and recently reread it:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/04/review-toyota-sienna-le-2-7/
I take it with a grain of salt as that writer tended to be quite snarky, and some of the readers' comments mitigated some of the article's venom.
We have owned three minivans that I'm sure the media would have condemned for lack of power. All served us well.
1990 Mazda MPV 2.6 l inline-4 with 121 HP/149 lb-ft. This was a great van to drive, with the same 5-speed manual transmission as was used in the RX-7. The power was completely adequate, even with the van loaded right up. This was totaled in an accident at 326K km, but still ran very well.
1997 Mazda MPV 3.0 l V6 with 155 HP/169 lb-ft. Another winner - this one had the 4-speed Jatco automatic, as the MT was dropped after the '91 MY. Even with the automatic, it had excellent mid-range power - there was a variable intake manifold system that gave a VTEC-like bump at 3600 RPM. More than adequate! This was vandalized and so scrapped at 344K km. The drivetrain was still near perfect.
1995 Mazda Bongo 2.0 l. OK, this one definitely could have used help. A (slightly) sub-2 litre SOHC engine pulling around a 9-passenger van? Really? I remember slogging up a hill on State Hwy 1 in northern New Zealand, and seeing a sign warning drivers to slow to 70 kph or whatever. But at the time we were screaming along in 2nd gear at 40 - 50 kph.
But of course there's a proud history of underpowered vans:
There were the first-gen Dodge and Plymouth vans ("Magic Wagons") with base K-Car engine - a 2.2 l four.
And of course the legendary VW bus, with its little flat air-cooled 4.
And there was the Toyota Previa, with its 2.4 l inline-4.
So by comparison to some of these, my two MPVs felt like rocket ships.
So all that to say, I wasn't too worried about the alleged power deficit in the 3rd-gen Sienna. I figured with the 6-speed automatic, it would be fine, but I've never driven one. It's probably moot anyway - as discussed previously, they are very rare here.
I'm not surprised that the mpg is the same: both engines are being asked to do the same amount of work (this isn't the old days of wheezy engines and limited transmission gear ratios). I do think the I4 is probably not quite enough for such a big van, but until I drive one I'm not sure I'd write it off--not sure I'd seek one out (although the notion of an easy to work on traverse engine setup is nice). But I have a pretty low bar for what I accept in a vehicle (my daily is what, 11 seconds for 0-60?).
I owned two chrysler town and country LWB minivans and enjoyed them both. They were both that 2001-02 body style. However they both deteriorated with time... especially electronics and small rubber and plastic bits. But, we had a loaner at one point, probably around 2010 when the body went square, shared with VW. The Pentastar, interior quality and driving experience, I thought was superb. Gas mileage was really good, and the roll-down rear windows were a hit for us. While I’ll vouch for minimal fuss from every Toyota I’ve had my hands on, the fit and finish and styling of the ‘10 chrysler product would at least get considered on my end.
The new 2021 Sienna Hybrid has a total of 245hp thanks to it's electric motor boost. That is substantially more than the 187hp 4-cyl used in the 2011-2012, but substantially less than the 296hp V/6 used in the 2020. I drove a new one to get the feel. It actually feels like it has more HP than 245 because of the electric motor's instant torque, so acceleration isn't bad. On the highway, the electric assist helps the van to keep up with traffic adequately, but not effortlessly like the V/6 did.
