Checking out older minivans

Number_35

Number_35

Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
5,169
Location
Winnipeg MB CA
We went down to one vehicle a bit over a year and a half ago, when we gave our big van ('09 Kia Sedona) to our older son and his family. We've been running just the one smaller van ('09 Mazda 5) since then. With the Mazda getting older now, it's laid up for the occasional repair. As well, we're starting to find that we'd like something bigger for trips, and are hoping for more grandchildren to fill up a larger vehicle.

With that in mind, we're looking at older large minivans (to use a bit of an oxymoron).

A used car lot in the area has a 2007 Toyota Sienna (3.5 l w/ 5-speed automatic) in absolutely minty shape, in spite of the 200K km (124K miles) on it. It has been brought in from another province - it obviously hasn't spent 13 years in the rust belt. At C$10K + 12% (provincial and federal sales taxes) it's a bit pricey for its age, but not totally out of line; these seem to hold their value very well. I suppose this is what they call the "Toyota tax". We could afford newer, but I prefer the styling of the 2nd-gen Sienna ('04 - '10) over the 2011+. As it happens, the 2007 is the first year with the timing-chain equipped 3.5 l engine.

I also found a 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan (3.3 l w/ presumably the 4-speed automatic) on-line. It's a private sale through Kijiji, and I'm waiting to hear back. It's advertised as having a very low 75K km on it (about 46K miles) and is only C$5300 + 7% sales tax (no federal tax because it's a private sale). Need to see it in person of course!

Both vehicles offer comparable utility and fuel efficiency. The Dodges have the bad tranny reputation, but I'm pretty OCD about maintenance, so think the tranny might do well if I run synthetic ATF and do an annual drain-and-fill. I think the 3.3 has a good reputation.

Thoughts? Experiences? Known weak points? Parts availability?

Many thanks in advance!
 
My parents still have their 2004 Grand Caravan with the 3.3, has almost 190k on it, and still has the factory transmission of which has only ever seen one trans flush in its life.
 
07+ Sienna are just about bulletproof if it was taken care of. I have a 07 Caravan with a 3.8 engine, my tranny started slipping at 90k miles, I changed the ATF with Amsoil a few times and added Lubegard Dr. Tranny fix and i'm at 165,000+ miles and still works great but the rust is eating the body alive. Living in a rust area I would stay away from that generation of Caravan's as they all rust like crazy and once they start it spreads fast.
 
An early 3.5 like that should have the VVTI oil lines checked. At least the 5AT has a dipstick so that should simplify AT changes. You don't indicate if it is AWD but those used runflats instead of having a spare--if it's FWD then that's one less complication.

The Caravan with a 3.3, those engines didn't drink oil like the 3.8's could, from what I've read. The 4AT could be problematic, although it wasn't always the transmission--apparently the final drive could be problematic. But given all the issues they had, rebuilds should be cheap. I'm not sure about the electrical aspects of this vintage though. Some year had bad solder joints? I think someone here was telling me about various modules being VIN coded to the vehicle.

But at a $5k difference between the two...!

I'd think parts availability would be good for both, but usually import is more pricey. I have not shopped actual parts though.
 
My wife and I rented a Dodge Caravan for a vaction trip 7 days,,,was the best thing we ever did--- plenty of room, seats folded flat and lots of engine power to boot,,,we are lookiing to get a used one now for camping in it,,,yes camping, we are still rugged enough to do that,,lol
 
Doesn't make much sense to me to pay twice as much for a vehicle that has more than double the mileage. Really need to see it in person though...
 
Caravan, all the way. The 3.5 is a nightmare to work on, try doing a water pump on one. Absolute pain. Alternator? Pray for your knuckles. Plugs? Pull the cowl, intake, fight multiple wiring harness'. Caravan? Alternator is a 30 minute job. Water pump? An hour and a half. Plugs? Maybe 45 minutes with beer breaks.

The 4-speed Chrysler transmission doesn't have any problems anymore. They caught a bad rap way back in the early 90's and have long since been updated and are almost bulletproof. You really won't regret getting the lower mileage Dodge.
 
I'd sure have a look at the dodge, if they have maintenance records and no rust I'd snap it up. I'm sure the used lot threw any maintenance records for the toyota in the trash, but have look on the lift for new parts. If there's none, you may find your doing shocks and suspension. Not a big deal if you can do it yourself, but can add up to quite a bit to have it in the garage every few months replacing something under there.
 
We looked at the Dodge this evening. Unfortunately, it was too good to be true. It was a short wheelbase Caravan, not a Grand Caravan as I'd expected. (My fault - I thought they'd dropped the SWB years before.) The seller had done a lot of DIY bodywork, looked like mostly rust repair on the rocker panels and rear wheel wells, but there was some new rust coming through. Regardless of the low mileage, this was not the one for us. :(

Diyjake, thanks for the reminder about the rust - you were right!

Supton, the Toyota is FWD, not AWD. I crawled underneath as best I could to confirm - no driveshaft to the back, and there is a spare tucked underneath. Yes, I don't want to travel w/o a spare! You'd mentioned the VVTI oil lines; are they external? If internal, is the issue that they get sludged up? Thanks.

CourierDriver, I drove a new rental Grand Caravan out to the mountains in '06, part of chaperoning a school trip, and found it to be an outstanding road trip vehicle. Very comfortable, and easy on gas.

Dishdude, agreed, the Toyota tax was (is) off-putting, but looking at the two vehicles, it's like the mileage is reversed. Without knowing, you'd say the Toyota has 50K miles on it, and the Dodge 200K!

14Accent, thanks for the heads-up on the repair issues. Yes, I do almost all of my maintenance and repairs myself, and serviceability is a big factor for me. I liked the idea of not pulling the intake manifold on the Dodge just to change the rear bank of plugs. I changed a WP on my friend's '05 3.3 a few years ago, and it wasn't a bad job at all. I liked the integrated O-ring-type gasket. Might still wind up with a Dodge, but if so it will probably be a 2014+. What are your thoughts on working on the 3.6 l Pentastar?

Indylan, when I looked at the Toyota previously, I asked the owner of the lot whether the timing belt had been done recently. He checked some maintenance records and said it had been dealer-serviced, but that the records he had did not spell out what had been done. But then I noticed it didn't appear to have a TB. He looked at it too, and agreed. Confirmed this online when I got home - for 2007 the 3.5 w/ chain replaced the 3.3 w/ TB. All this to say that he does appear to have access to at least an overview of the maintenance records.

Skippy722, Super20Dan, Rob1715, and Addyguy, thanks for your votes!

Thanks all! To be continued ...
 
I forgot to mention the rust... my parents is BAD, but the thing refuses to die. Between the abuse my parents put it through, loading it up like a pick up truck with landscaping supplies yearly, and surviving 3 teenage drivers who all lacked mechanical sympathy, I’m honestly surprised by it. But I’d still avoid ones with rust at all cost, once they start to rust is spreads quicker than a wildfire on California.
 
It's the rear VVT-i line on early year 2GR engines that is prone to failure, as the line is metal at the ends and a hose coupled in the middle. The hose can leak and due to the high pressure you can lose the oil in no time and the engine is toast. They did a recall, but the recall replaced with another rubber and metal type line...the best way to remedy is to buy the newer version of the part from Toyota that was an all-metal construction and install that one. Easy DIY, although I did it on the Highlander which is electric steering...I feel like I remember seeing that you may have to remove the ps pump to get to it on these installations, but not sure.
 
If you like the Dodge, buy it. For the money you save on the difference between it and the Toyota, you can buy a new transmission.

If you don't need it, money saved. If you do, it's a largely break even proposition.

If you don't like the van, don't buy it, regardless if it's Toyota, Honda, Dodge, whatever...

(Edited to add, I should have read the entire thread before I replied...)

Number_35 said:
We went down to one vehicle a bit over a year and a half ago, when we gave our big van ('09 Kia Sedona) to our older son and his family. We've been running just the one smaller van ('09 Mazda 5) since then. With the Mazda getting older now, it's laid up for the occasional repair. As well, we're starting to find that we'd like something bigger for trips, and are hoping for more grandchildren to fill up a larger vehicle.

With that in mind, we're looking at older large minivans (to use a bit of an oxymoron).

A used car lot in the area has a 2007 Toyota Sienna (3.5 l w/ 5-speed automatic) in absolutely minty shape, in spite of the 200K km (124K miles) on it. It has been brought in from another province - it obviously hasn't spent 13 years in the rust belt. At C$10K + 12% (provincial and federal sales taxes) it's a bit pricey for its age, but not totally out of line; these seem to hold their value very well. I suppose this is what they call the "Toyota tax". We could afford newer, but I prefer the styling of the 2nd-gen Sienna ('04 - '10) over the 2011+. As it happens, the 2007 is the first year with the timing-chain equipped 3.5 l engine.

I also found a 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan (3.3 l w/ presumably the 4-speed automatic) on-line. It's a private sale through Kijiji, and I'm waiting to hear back. It's advertised as having a very low 75K km on it (about 46K miles) and is only C$5300 + 7% sales tax (no federal tax because it's a private sale). Need to see it in person of course!

Both vehicles offer comparable utility and fuel efficiency. The Dodges have the bad tranny reputation, but I'm pretty OCD about maintenance, so think the tranny might do well if I run synthetic ATF and do an annual drain-and-fill. I think the 3.3 has a good reputation.

Thoughts? Experiences? Known weak points? Parts availability?

Many thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
 
I had a 2004 Dodge Grand Caravan, changed the ATF fluid once at 60K or 70K miles. At 110K miles the tranny started leaking. It was the electronic tranny solenoid (a common problem). My indy charged me $350 or so including labor (1.5 hours I believe) to put a new one in. Rebuild kits are available for the determined DIYer who needs to save the maximum amount of $.

Unfortunately the vehicle was totaled a year or two later. My sense was that the tranny would have lasted to 200K with the new solenoid.
 
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You might be able to find a 4-cylinder Sienna in your budget. It is much easier to work on than any transverse V6 (and minivans are even worse), and it has the same power as a Chrysler pushrod V6. Toyota is smart enough to include a drain plug in the transmission pan. I don't think Chrysler does.

How did you like the Sedona before you gave it to your son? Would you buy another Sedona?

You might also like the Transit Connect, if you can find a passenger version.
 
IndyIan said:
What's a new Dodge Caravan go for these days? https://www.downsviewchrysler.ca/ne...+Caravan-f5762a620a0e0ae7534c91bf2727b453.htm
Seems like $17.7k plus tax? My Dad bought a new RAM 1500 from these guys and they didn't have time to play games to inflate the price, they were selling too many cars. Anyways, perhaps there's a similar dealer closer by.
Click to expand...
These were very affordable until the last couple of years or so. For example, a good friend bought a 2016 GC in CVP (base - steel wheels, no roof rack, no stow-n-go middle seats) for C$19K in 2017. It was some deal whereby the dealer had registered it, put literally only 100 km on it, and sold it as "pre-owned". Great deal! A year or so before, the CVPs were listed new, in the current model year, still under C$20K.

So, here are some local advertised current prices on new GCs now:
2019 SXT trim
List C$45,262, now C$31,999.

2020 SXT trim
List $46,930, now C$35,633

2020 SE Plus
List $35,240, now C$29,478

It looks like the sub-C$20K models are long-gone. At current prices, I want to look at alternatives.
 
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