Thanks guys - great answers to my question. And peterr: are you saying that most people who use synthetic oil for extended drains change the filter at some point before they change the oil? I thought most quality filters should last as long as the oil does - or am I wrong? This is why I do not understand the concept of changing the filter between OCI.
Change oil and filter together or skip one or the other?
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I don't know about "most" but certainly some long OCI users change the filter within the OCI. I think they are fearful of the filter getting plugged up and going into bypass mode. I have no fear of a good filter going 10,000 mile OCIs when the car makers are recommending 15,000 miles between filter changes. There is also the "feeling" that changing the filter will reduce the insoluables in the oil, the 3MP study did not confirm this, there was no change in insoluables after a filter change.
Old habits die hard!
I developed software, about 10 years ago, for fleet vehicle maintenance. There are certain items that are tracked because they stop the vehicle when they fail, like fan belts, hoses, cooling system, fuel filters, etc. So at 80% of their expected life, we schedule service...better in the shop than on the side of the road. For oil filters, we've recorded problems at mileage exceeding 15k. The failure rate is 1 to 3%, over a thousand vehicles, by that I mean element failture rate. There might be more, that are missed in the process of an oil change. These failures are noted as plugged filters, media damage, leaks and spot checks where filters are cut open. Plugged filters are always cut open and usually found to be media failures, which sometimes points to some other problem. Because of this, the 15k service has been reduced to a 12k service and the filter problems have been reduced to
I think Honda and others, have got such close control of the design and manufacturing process that these new oils and oci's are just an example of more fine tunning, on their part.
For our part, we can not deal with on-board maintenance because of scheduling so many vehicles. So we will stick to frequent uoa's and our very agressive maintance plan. Trying to get cars in, on the fly, is beyound our ability to manage the shop. In other words, they won't pay me to come back and 'enhance' the software.
I think Honda and others, have got such close control of the design and manufacturing process that these new oils and oci's are just an example of more fine tunning, on their part.
For our part, we can not deal with on-board maintenance because of scheduling so many vehicles. So we will stick to frequent uoa's and our very agressive maintance plan. Trying to get cars in, on the fly, is beyound our ability to manage the shop. In other words, they won't pay me to come back and 'enhance' the software.
Martyi
I probably should have said "many" instead of most. When I hear people say they are running a 25K OCI on Amsoil it is rarely on the same filter.
In a larger sense what I am really saying is:
1. If you are going to the trouble to change the oil why not change the filter?
2. If you are going through the cost of changing the oil why worry about the incremental cost of the filter?
3. Don't you want to get all the old oil out? Many people drain hot to try and maximize drain, but the filter will contain a fair qty of old oil.
4. The possibily (yes its remote) of clogged filter going into bypass).
Maybe its just me but on my cars and in my garage its very awkward to get to the drain plug. Its really easy to get to the oil filter. I have no idea why I would struggle like an SOB to get the old oil out and put $40 worth of new oil in and then not spend the $4.50 and take the 2 minutes to put in a new filter just for peace of mind.
It is interesting that car manufacturers recommend changing the oil filter every other oil change. If you follow the "normal" maintenance schedule on some Hondas/Acuras, that means that you would be leaving the oil filter on for 20k miles (10k mile OCIs). Now consider that Honda oil filters (in North America) are basically rebranded Fram filters...
Impressive input, regards your research; Thank you
I think that the filter should be changed every time the oil is.
This may be even more important since there is a question by some in regards to filter construction by Champ.
This may be even more important since there is a question by some in regards to filter construction by Champ.
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