Castrol Edge 0W30 has BMW LL01 again!

[cheerful_man]

I have bunch of Motul on my shelf for next 3yrs including 300V. I have also 10qt of Castrol 0W30 from like 3yrs ago.
Castrol pds is nothing. You should see Pennzoil.

You may want to try this for tracking. ROWE Hightec SYNTH RS SAE 5W-40, 100% PAO from Germany. HTHS 4,1 NOAK 4,3%, Flash point ASTM D-92 249 °C. Rare find. Sadly it would be useless for my X5.

https://www.rowe-oil.com/en/distrib...2GeEg9/hightec-synth-rs-sae-5w-40~pVgY84my1LO
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/prod...e-5w40-motor-oil-20001005099-5-liter-75572762

 

[edyvw]

You may want to try this for tracking. ROWE Hightec SYNTH RS SAE 5W-40, 100% PAO from Germany. HTHS 4,1 NOAK 4,3%, Flash point ASTM D-92 249 °C. Rare find. Sadly it would be useless for my X5.

https://www.rowe-oil.com/en/distrib...2GeEg9/hightec-synth-rs-sae-5w-40~pVgY84my1LO
https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/87909-rowe-hightec-synth-rs-5w-40-api-sn-svezhee
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/prod...e-5w40-motor-oil-20001005099-5-liter-75572762

No oil is 100% PAO or Ester.
If you check MSDS, you will see a bunch of other chemicals (though it will show only those that are harmful).
As for oil itself, Motul 300V is the better product. It has the same HTHS out of a thinner base.
However, unlike Motul 300V, ROWE does provide idea what that it could be used in engines requiring certain specifications, including LL01.

 

[cheerful_man]

No oil is 100% PAO or Ester.
If you check MSDS, you will see a bunch of other chemicals (though it will show only those that are harmful).
As for oil itself, Motul 300V is the better product. It has the same HTHS out of a thinner base.
However, unlike Motul 300V, ROWE does provide idea what that it could be used in engines requiring certain specifications, including LL01.

I didn't mean it literally, I meant close to possible max, especially because this is meant to be sold in Germany where the law regarding the name is still intact.

 

[edyvw]

I didn't mean it literally, I meant close to possible max, especially because this is meant to be sold in Germany where the law regarding the name is still intact.

Oil, I think, has to be 50% PAO or Ester.
But, in the end, it is a final product that matters. I would take Mobil1 0W40 over that.

 

[svenson]

Equivalent quality in accordance with EU-law as per

i wonder what is the need for someone to be in all that trouble to request price, to buy an oil without approval but equivalent quality when there are so many oils out there with approvals and you can buy them at a shop easily.
i mean its not a rare bourbon of 100 years old mature!

 

[kschachn]

I didn't mean it literally, I meant close to possible max, especially because this is meant to be sold in Germany where the law regarding the name is still intact.

It's not a law, but okay.

 

[edyvw]

It's not a law, but okay.

It is basically guidelines by German marketing authority.
But, oil is average based on PDS. It does not stand out in any way.

 

[chris719]

To me, the big question is if the Infineum Euro full-SAPS SP add pack is better in real world than the older SN packages. Yes, the Rowe and some other oils with SN or older packages have stout base oils but it's not meaningful if the newest additive packages produce better results in the real world. Ravenol VST looks like a good option if you want boutique since you now get the same additive package as the M1 0W-40 it looks like based on VOA on oil-club.de.

 

[edyvw]

To me, the big question is if the Infineum Euro full-SAPS SP add pack is better in real world than the older SN packages. Yes, the Rowe and some other oils with SN or older packages have stout base oils but it's not meaningful if the newest additive packages produce better results in the real world. Ravenol VST looks like a good option if you want boutique since you now get the same additive package as the M1 0W-40 it looks like based on VOA on oil-club.de.

Will see. It will be hard to determine that. What is better? Simple UOA etc. won't give us anything. SP primarily addresses LSPI , however, Euro engine sdon't have issues with that (non tuned). So, not sure in which way it will be "better." I did UOA with SOPUS between PPE 5W40 SP and Motul 5W40 SN, and no difference in wear or anything that one can see looking at UOA.
Going back to Castrol 0W30, we will see whether grade retention is going to stay the same. I would not be surprised that it is SP additive package inside.

 

[chris719]

Will see. It will be hard to determine that. What is better? Simple UOA etc. won't give us anything. SP primarily addresses LSPI , however, Euro engine sdon't have issues with that (non tuned). So, not sure in which way it will be "better." I did UOA with SOPUS between PPE 5W40 SP and Motul 5W40 SN, and no difference in wear or anything that one can see looking at UOA.
Going back to Castrol 0W30, we will see whether grade retention is going to stay the same. I would not be surprised that it is SP additive package inside.

Well, LSJ did say in one of his videos he observed better cam wear with SP oils also in general. We won't ever know I suppose.

 

[edyvw]

Well, LSJ did say in one of his videos he observed better cam wear with SP oils also in general. We won't ever know I suppose.

I did not watch that. I have finite patience for his sensationalism.

 

[cheerful_man]

To me, the big question is if the Infineum Euro full-SAPS SP add pack is better in real world than the older SN packages. Yes, the Rowe and some other oils with SN or older packages have stout base oils but it's not meaningful if the newest additive packages produce better results in the real world. Ravenol VST looks like a good option if you want boutique since you now get the same additive package as the M1 0W-40 it looks like based on VOA on oil-club.de.

There are posts on forums stating that Ravenol had QC problems, it was proven with VOA. Also this company is very small and not very popular in Germany, they just mix and fill what they purchased from other companies and their "expensive premium oil" strategy would make sense if they had good reputation which they don't. Another fact is that this company's management and staff is mostly russian, nothing against that but even reviews from their employees are very negative so is the corporate culture, so that "Made in Germany" label is as fake as if this oil was mixed somewhere else.
Currently more and more companies in Germany either close or move their production to other countries, like China. So overall "Made in Germany" makes less sense with every year. Some brands like "Hazet", "Knipex" still make quality products, but they have earned their reputation over decades. Considering some post about Ravenol, I would probably send a sample from each bottle for VOA before pouring it into the engine until it's proven that they fixed their QC problems and their reputation.

 

[edyvw]

There are posts on forums stating that Ravenol had QC problems, it was proven with VOA. Also this company is very small and not very popular in Germany, they just mix and fill what they purchased from other companies and their "expensive premium oil" strategy would make sense if they had good reputation which they don't. Another fact is that this company's management and staff is mostly russian, nothing against that but even reviews from their employees are very negative so is the corporate culture, so that "Made in Germany" label is as fake as if this oil was mixed somewhere else.
Currently more and more companies in Germany either close or move their production to other countries, like China. So overall "Made in Germany" makes less sense with every year. Some brands like "Hazet", "Knipex" still make quality products, but they have earned their reputation over decades. Considering some post about Ravenol, I would probably send a sample from each bottle for VOA before pouring it into the engine until it's proven that they fixed their QC problems and their reputation.

Mexico.
As for Ravenol, in the absence of evidence, it is just an assumption.

 

[kschachn]

There are posts on forums stating that Ravenol had QC problems, it was proven with VOA. Also this company is very small and not very popular in Germany, they just mix and fill what they purchased from other companies and their "expensive premium oil" strategy would make sense if they had good reputation which they don't. Another fact is that this company's management and staff is mostly russian, nothing against that but even reviews from their employees are very negative so is the corporate culture, so that "Made in Germany" label is as fake as if this oil was mixed somewhere else.
Currently more and more companies in Germany either close or move their production to other countries, like China. So overall "Made in Germany" makes less sense with every year. Some brands like "Hazet", "Knipex" still make quality products, but they have earned their reputation over decades. Considering some post about Ravenol, I would probably send a sample from each bottle for VOA before pouring it into the engine until it's proven that they fixed their QC problems and their reputation.

All of that has zero influence.

Was this your point in joining?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

There are posts on forums stating that Ravenol had QC problems, it was proven with VOA. Also this company is very small and not very popular in Germany, they just mix and fill what they purchased from other companies and their "expensive premium oil" strategy would make sense if they had good reputation which they don't. Another fact is that this company's management and staff is mostly russian, nothing against that but even reviews from their employees are very negative so is the corporate culture, so that "Made in Germany" label is as fake as if this oil was mixed somewhere else.
Currently more and more companies in Germany either close or move their production to other countries, like China. So overall "Made in Germany" makes less sense with every year. Some brands like "Hazet", "Knipex" still make quality products, but they have earned their reputation over decades. Considering some post about Ravenol, I would probably send a sample from each bottle for VOA before pouring it into the engine until it's proven that they fixed their QC problems and their reputation.

I remember reading years ago that they had a problem with fakes. Not so sure about QC.

 

[chris719]

As far as I have ever read on oil-club.de, they had a couple bottles where the VM wasn't blended properly and then substituted the Vanlube W-324 in VST for an arguably better organic additive when COVID interrupted supply chain. Shell/Pennzoil has also had bottles with VM solubility issues. Not perfect but nothing too scary. Plenty of VOAs and UOAs on oil-club.de. They are one of the few that actually publish complete PDS as well.

 

[Trav]

It's not a law, but okay.

It is a law in Germany and has been for decades.

All around the world, other than in Germany, Group III and Group IV motor oils are both labelled as Synthetic Motor Oils. This is not allowed in Germany. In fact, according to German Law, German Motor Oils have to clearly differentiate between the two

 

[kschachn]

It is a law in Germany and has been for decades.

We've had several discussions on this, and no one has ever found that it is a law. The closest anyone has shown is that it is a marketing rule of some sort. Kind of like when people say the Mobil vs. Castrol synthetic ruling came from a court case, which it did not.

If you can find a German law that would be helpful.

 

[cheerful_man]

We've had several discussions on this, and no one has ever found that it is a law. The closest anyone has shown is that it is a marketing rule of some sort. Kind of like when people say the Mobil vs. Castrol synthetic ruling came from a court case, which it did not.

If you can find a German law that would be helpful.

"In its ruling of June 24, 2016 (case no. 6 U 78/15), the Cologne Higher Regional Court ruled that only those motor oils without mineral oil content that consumers have known as fully synthetic since the 1970s may be advertised as "fully synthetic" without restriction. This product group only includes oils whose base oil content consists of API groups IV and V. For other synthetically produced motor oils, a notice must be provided if they are to be advertised as "fully synthetic"."
"The judges of the Federal Court of Justice recently had to take an exciting excursion into the world of petrochemicals: The question to be clarified was whether a lubricant chemically refined by "hydrocracking" could be advertised as a "fully synthetic engine oil of the new generation". The Federal Court of Justice denied this and confirmed the argument of the lower court: the consumer does not expect mineral oil under this name, but an artificial product (BGH, judgment of June 21, 2018, case number I ZR 157/16)."

I noticed that there are too many statements on this forum from people who do not know the matter but write their guesses with confidence and attack others to look knowledgeable and important.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts"

 

[edyvw]

"In its ruling of June 24, 2016 (case no. 6 U 78/15), the Cologne Higher Regional Court ruled that only those motor oils without mineral oil content that consumers have known as fully synthetic since the 1970s may be advertised as "fully synthetic" without restriction. This product group only includes oils whose base oil content consists of API groups IV and V. For other synthetically produced motor oils, a notice must be provided if they are to be advertised as "fully synthetic"."
"The judges of the Federal Court of Justice recently had to take an exciting excursion into the world of petrochemicals: The question to be clarified was whether a lubricant chemically refined by "hydrocracking" could be advertised as a "fully synthetic engine oil of the new generation". The Federal Court of Justice denied this and confirmed the argument of the lower court: the consumer does not expect mineral oil under this name, but an artificial product (BGH, judgment of June 21, 2018, case number I ZR 157/16)."

I noticed that there are too many statements on this forum from people who do not know the matter but write their guesses with confidence and attack others to look knowledgeable and important.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts"

That is not the law! That is ruling.
German judicial practice is not precedent like that of the US; it is based on Roman practice or civil law tradition. This means that the German state has to pass a law that clearly states what is fully synthetic and what is not! Just because someone won the case somewhere does not mean that that is precedent. For that to happen, that language has to be modified into law by the German Parliament as part of the positive law.

I also noticed people who cannot understand the difference between Roman Law practice and Anglo-Saxon Law practice exert too much confidence.