Her mind is made up , Goodluck she won't be moving anytime soon
Car buying scenario for daughter
- Thread starter Bailey28
- Start date
Show her this calculator, do it at say age 22 and again at age 32 maybe doing $500 at 8 or 12%. So she can see the advantage of starting early.
Ask her , would you like to be a millionaire ? This is how.
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/ret...N0oe7jbfp4dDqzvDuGWMhndfYRx156Lrky1S3-uCRiSaJ
She has a running car to drive that is probably as reliable as anything else that's ten years old.
That it recently required four figures in maintenance and repair expense is probably no worse than anything else.
A new vehicle for a student makes no sense at all unless mom and dad can well afford to buy one for them.
All things considered, until she earns enough money to buy a new truck on her own, I'd give it a hard no.
A vehicle is no more nor less than transportation. It is neither a personal profile nor a lifestyle machine.
That it recently required four figures in maintenance and repair expense is probably no worse than anything else.
A new vehicle for a student makes no sense at all unless mom and dad can well afford to buy one for them.
All things considered, until she earns enough money to buy a new truck on her own, I'd give it a hard no.
A vehicle is no more nor less than transportation. It is neither a personal profile nor a lifestyle machine.
I had a long post typed out, and deleted it, as it's none of my business how you raise your kids.
I'll just say that the most compassionate thing the wife and I felt we could do for our kids, was to make sure they could support themselves, regardless of what might happen to us.
Good luck.
I'll just say that the most compassionate thing the wife and I felt we could do for our kids, was to make sure they could support themselves, regardless of what might happen to us.
Good luck.
I'm guilty of not minding my business too often. It's a virtue, for sure.
If we all minded our own business this forum would not be as great as it is. I value and respect all of your perspectives and will combine the advice given here as a guide.
Lots of good arm chair quarterbacking advice here (every situation has unique nuances). Approaching age 70, I'll offer another opinion. College and the work world have changed dramatically since my time in the mid 1970's. This thing about charging her rent - IF she is pursuing adulthood responsibly and contributing to the household, I'm no longer totally in agreement in charging rent if the parents don't need it. Again, this is based on her living responsibly. Maybe paying off some debt, adding to a savings account and starting retirement financial planning. There's nothing wrong with helping them along in this manner to get them on a solid foundation. This is different than the adult child free loader living in the basement for decades.
Good luck Bailey28. Expect twists and turns moving forward.
Good luck Bailey28. Expect twists and turns moving forward.
I feel for the OP. The issue is his wife and there is no good way out of it, outside of convincing here that she's creating an adult baby by enabling irresponsible spending.
I would be discussing it with her constantly. Nag, nag and nag some more. Use their tactics.
The last thing you want to happen is come home one day to a brand new truck, snap, kick out the daughter and your wife will likely follow as a result of you being "unreasonable".
I would be discussing it with her constantly. Nag, nag and nag some more. Use their tactics.
The last thing you want to happen is come home one day to a brand new truck, snap, kick out the daughter and your wife will likely follow as a result of you being "unreasonable".
There are a few ways to look at this. Here's my opinion... worth nothing because I will likely never be a parent. But hear me out.
A few years back I had a perfect 2010 Ford Escape. Paid off, economical transportation. Insurance was cheap. It was practical. No reason to replace it. But, I got bored of it and long story short last year I ended up in a brand new Honda Prologue. If you're not sure what it is, it's a rebadged Chevy Blazer EV, which is a fully electric mid size SUV. Should I have got a $45K car when I made like $25/hr in one of the most expensive places in the world and the only reason I could actually make it work was cheap rent with my best friend and a side gig doing web development work for my other best friend's startup? Heck no! BUT ever since they announced the Prologue I knew I had to have one because it was just a beautiful vehicle. But that's beside the point.
Well 7000 miles later I got in a wreck that resulted in my Prologue ending up going off the road, smashing into a huge boulder, and ending up sideways back on the street. The car was obviously totaled but I pressed the button, opened the sunroof, and climbed out completely unharmed, at least physically.
I'm not saying older Ford Escapes are unsafe (they are safe for their time), but I'm convinced that the only reason I am here typing this today is the Prologue. The weight of the battery being in the floor kept me from rolling over completely... and the other side of the road was basically a cliff... and the modern design and safety features kept me safe during the collision.
What did I do after that? I got another brand new EV - in this case a Tesla with Full Self Driving because I went from being a (perhaps over-) confident driver to driving giving me really bad anxiety. Sure, I have a $300 car payment (if you add the $5K I put down on the 24mo lease that's effectively $500/mo), pay $100 for FSD, and pay $350 for insurance. Add in $10/mo for Premium connectivity and that's over $900/mo to drive this car... when I make under $50K/year. Stupid? Maybe. But it saved my life.
The moral of this wall of text if you don't want to read all that:
1. If it was my kid and I was the parent I would get my kid a new vehicle - and not a small car - at least a midsize SUV. Preferably fully electric but I get that's not realistic for everyone. And I'd want the best driver assistance features and safety technology available. Research crash test results and safety ratings! And remember that safety ratings can't be directly compared between different classes of vehicles. If a "5 star rated" compact car goes head on with a "4 star rated" full size SUV... well I'd rather be in the GMC Yukon, not the Nissan Versa.
2. Separate wants from needs. Commuting to work and back when you live at home does not merit a truck. If a truck is for some reason a must, the Ford Maverick Hybrid is an economical choice. 40+ MPG is double what a Canyon or Tacoma would get, and it has good safety ratings (albeit I saw it didn't get a good rating for rear passengers but that's not particularly important in this case). If an EV would fit your use case, Equinox EVs are absurdly discounted right now. You can get one for $20-25K BRAND NEW if you shop smart. That's a lot of vehicle for the money! Just get an LT with 19" wheels, not an RS with 21" wheels... trust me on that one.
Sorry for the long post and hope it's helpful.
A few years back I had a perfect 2010 Ford Escape. Paid off, economical transportation. Insurance was cheap. It was practical. No reason to replace it. But, I got bored of it and long story short last year I ended up in a brand new Honda Prologue. If you're not sure what it is, it's a rebadged Chevy Blazer EV, which is a fully electric mid size SUV. Should I have got a $45K car when I made like $25/hr in one of the most expensive places in the world and the only reason I could actually make it work was cheap rent with my best friend and a side gig doing web development work for my other best friend's startup? Heck no! BUT ever since they announced the Prologue I knew I had to have one because it was just a beautiful vehicle. But that's beside the point.
Well 7000 miles later I got in a wreck that resulted in my Prologue ending up going off the road, smashing into a huge boulder, and ending up sideways back on the street. The car was obviously totaled but I pressed the button, opened the sunroof, and climbed out completely unharmed, at least physically.
I'm not saying older Ford Escapes are unsafe (they are safe for their time), but I'm convinced that the only reason I am here typing this today is the Prologue. The weight of the battery being in the floor kept me from rolling over completely... and the other side of the road was basically a cliff... and the modern design and safety features kept me safe during the collision.
What did I do after that? I got another brand new EV - in this case a Tesla with Full Self Driving because I went from being a (perhaps over-) confident driver to driving giving me really bad anxiety. Sure, I have a $300 car payment (if you add the $5K I put down on the 24mo lease that's effectively $500/mo), pay $100 for FSD, and pay $350 for insurance. Add in $10/mo for Premium connectivity and that's over $900/mo to drive this car... when I make under $50K/year. Stupid? Maybe. But it saved my life.
The moral of this wall of text if you don't want to read all that:
1. If it was my kid and I was the parent I would get my kid a new vehicle - and not a small car - at least a midsize SUV. Preferably fully electric but I get that's not realistic for everyone. And I'd want the best driver assistance features and safety technology available. Research crash test results and safety ratings! And remember that safety ratings can't be directly compared between different classes of vehicles. If a "5 star rated" compact car goes head on with a "4 star rated" full size SUV... well I'd rather be in the GMC Yukon, not the Nissan Versa.
2. Separate wants from needs. Commuting to work and back when you live at home does not merit a truck. If a truck is for some reason a must, the Ford Maverick Hybrid is an economical choice. 40+ MPG is double what a Canyon or Tacoma would get, and it has good safety ratings (albeit I saw it didn't get a good rating for rear passengers but that's not particularly important in this case). If an EV would fit your use case, Equinox EVs are absurdly discounted right now. You can get one for $20-25K BRAND NEW if you shop smart. That's a lot of vehicle for the money! Just get an LT with 19" wheels, not an RS with 21" wheels... trust me on that one.
Sorry for the long post and hope it's helpful.
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I am fortunate enough to afford any type of car for the young adults in my family. They are 23 and 25 years old.
What did I get them? A perfectly safe 16-year-old vehicle the that will get them from A to B.
The oldest just passed having over $100,000 in savings less than 2 years after graduating college. The younger one has all the right habits to do that as well.
They know the basics of car maintenance. I don't expect them to do everything. But I have taught them a fair deal and they understand the philosophy of investing in their daily driver instead of simply buying an overpriced one that will neutron bomb their savings and future costs.
Keep the Hyundai. Give your daughter the opportunity to visit an enthusiast forum like the one here, along with one that specializes in that model.
Offer to teach her what she needs to know. That will be more valuable to her than any $30,000 vehicle.
@Bailey28 - what was the $2100 expense for that contributed to the not reliable vehicle? We have all been there, the costs at shop and parts are crazy these days. At $2100 that is 4-5 months of car payment except the car payment will continue and will also need maintenance, parts. I just did $900 for a serpentine tensioner in a 252k '08 CRV. I did about $1000 for a CV axle and transmission mount in a 195k '10 Forte for my kids. I trust the cars and so do my kids. Do they want new and shiny, my son does, my daughter wants hers forever. My son has a good job, makes what I do after 34 years in management at my job. He has a lot of loans from Physicians Assistant school as does his wife from her teaching degree. Both working but the loans are a large hindrance. My son and his wife (at the time fiancé) lived with us for 3 years in his bedroom and having basement to themselves. They wanted their own place but him not working made that kind of impossible. My wife and I explained with both (and my daughter) why they should live with us until they get the jobs. My wife and I enabled them to focus on school, not worry about monthly expenses. They long ago saw the wisdom of appreciating the assistance and guidance. My daughter is currently living home doing her clinical rotations. When she does have "free" time with a day off she works as a substitute teacher to make some money. My house expenses don't change that much for the opportunity it provides for them.
My wife and I have shared all of our stuff. Life experiences, values, our income and expenses and what our retirement funds have from starting early. Perfect, nope, hardly, but when you can show your kids the monthly income, after taxes and retirement savings it gives them a good view of life. My son had to argue with his wife over many money things, wants, needs, expectations, budgets but they are more or less in alignment. They got a dog, cute but bad idea IMO. I know she wants kids sooner than later. We can advise to wait a couple years but they will need to make their own life choices then. He is 25, his wife is 24. They now live 8 hours away and their apartment rent is 1/2 what it would be here in NY. Their focus is hitting loans hard while saving some. Juggle between early hardre savings and paying interest on loans.
Maybe as others have said, have your daughter start giving you $400-500/ month now. Invest in a CD or higher yield savings, maybe a Roth IRA. If she stops giving you monthly $$, take the keys or make it undriveable. Explain how the vehicle repossession scenario works. If she can't afford that every month while living free, she obviously can't when on her own. Maybe add for any other expenses you cover. Of course at the end you can give her all those funds at what time you feel that is good.
She has access to trucks/trailers. She could also rent a Uhaul or Home Depot truck for $50 and get all the stuff she needs. $50 bucks and someone there might pick up or deliver it for her. Small trailers are cheap as is a tow hitch. Don't forget to factor the insurance costs of new vehicle you can add that difference form current to new to the payment.
My dad made my kids and my nephews a deal when they started working in high school. He would match whatever money they made for that year up to the ROTH IRA contribution limit for that year ($5500) but it had to get invested. He wanted them to enjoy the money they made but also see what investing can do. Those $5500 have I think quadrupled in 10 years since markets did very well with what it was invested in.
My wife and I will continue to spoil our kids but in ways to help them succeed while they appreciate all of it as long as it fits our budget and planning. My parents did the same by taking us on vacation that they knew we wouldn't or couldn't afford. They helped with some house expenses and repairs. They helped with additional college funding to help offset. Their words, "we would rather spend money now so we can enjoy time with you and the grandkids then have you inherit it all later". My parents did a combination of mine and wife's birthday, anniversary and Christmas. We got upgraded insulation (did it with dad and I crawling in attic) and had central air installed for 15 years of future comfort. Dad has passed, mom is comfortable for expenses at 89. They said we need to do the same and instill the same values in the kids for the grandkids some day. Currently that covers going to dinner with them, keeping older cars working and filling them up when they are home.
My wife and I have shared all of our stuff. Life experiences, values, our income and expenses and what our retirement funds have from starting early. Perfect, nope, hardly, but when you can show your kids the monthly income, after taxes and retirement savings it gives them a good view of life. My son had to argue with his wife over many money things, wants, needs, expectations, budgets but they are more or less in alignment. They got a dog, cute but bad idea IMO. I know she wants kids sooner than later. We can advise to wait a couple years but they will need to make their own life choices then. He is 25, his wife is 24. They now live 8 hours away and their apartment rent is 1/2 what it would be here in NY. Their focus is hitting loans hard while saving some. Juggle between early hardre savings and paying interest on loans.
Maybe as others have said, have your daughter start giving you $400-500/ month now. Invest in a CD or higher yield savings, maybe a Roth IRA. If she stops giving you monthly $$, take the keys or make it undriveable. Explain how the vehicle repossession scenario works. If she can't afford that every month while living free, she obviously can't when on her own. Maybe add for any other expenses you cover. Of course at the end you can give her all those funds at what time you feel that is good.
She has access to trucks/trailers. She could also rent a Uhaul or Home Depot truck for $50 and get all the stuff she needs. $50 bucks and someone there might pick up or deliver it for her. Small trailers are cheap as is a tow hitch. Don't forget to factor the insurance costs of new vehicle you can add that difference form current to new to the payment.
My dad made my kids and my nephews a deal when they started working in high school. He would match whatever money they made for that year up to the ROTH IRA contribution limit for that year ($5500) but it had to get invested. He wanted them to enjoy the money they made but also see what investing can do. Those $5500 have I think quadrupled in 10 years since markets did very well with what it was invested in.
My wife and I will continue to spoil our kids but in ways to help them succeed while they appreciate all of it as long as it fits our budget and planning. My parents did the same by taking us on vacation that they knew we wouldn't or couldn't afford. They helped with some house expenses and repairs. They helped with additional college funding to help offset. Their words, "we would rather spend money now so we can enjoy time with you and the grandkids then have you inherit it all later". My parents did a combination of mine and wife's birthday, anniversary and Christmas. We got upgraded insulation (did it with dad and I crawling in attic) and had central air installed for 15 years of future comfort. Dad has passed, mom is comfortable for expenses at 89. They said we need to do the same and instill the same values in the kids for the grandkids some day. Currently that covers going to dinner with them, keeping older cars working and filling them up when they are home.
I have dealt with ex-inlaw in similar situation who wants an XLE Camry to replace their worn out XLE Camry but instead of having money to pay or ability to finance, they wanted me to lease for 3 years (and worry about it later after 3 years).
I have to say no, and offer to pay for a $8k used car instead. They got upset and the deal broke off. They often penny pinch and complain about $100 here and there, but never remembered why they were in financial hardship in the first place.
I would recommend just go out there and pay for a used but reliable Corolla as a gift to your daughter and take over and sell the Hyundai. This would be for the better and since you pay for the whole thing you have the right to choose. Most in her situation or your wife's situation would be upset for a few days but afterward be glad that she is not in debt. If she insist start charging her rent below market price, to make her realize financial reality of the world.
I have to say no, and offer to pay for a $8k used car instead. They got upset and the deal broke off. They often penny pinch and complain about $100 here and there, but never remembered why they were in financial hardship in the first place.
I would recommend just go out there and pay for a used but reliable Corolla as a gift to your daughter and take over and sell the Hyundai. This would be for the better and since you pay for the whole thing you have the right to choose. Most in her situation or your wife's situation would be upset for a few days but afterward be glad that she is not in debt. If she insist start charging her rent below market price, to make her realize financial reality of the world.
It sounds like you and your wife could afford to keep your daughter from being financially independent, for a few years at least?
And your wife thinks your daughter can skip the struggle of a young person with little of their own money?
It also sounds like your wife likes your daughter living with you and she wants to help her out, and there is nothing wrong with that, other than maybe not discussing it honestly with you?
There is obviously tons of money flying around in the horse world, so if she sticks around can build some skills/knowledge and get paid working there, that sounds like a plan? But buying all the expensive toys and on your own dime and not getting someone else to pay for them, isn't a great idea on such a low income, IMO. I would think you want to get her from client, to service provider.
If there a realistic viable plan to haul other people's horse for shows/events, then sure, buy a nice used truck and trailer, haul some clients horses, and make some money on an event weekend, instead of just paying it all out.
It does get easy to think you can spend lots money, when you are around people who do, but if this truck and trailer is just for personal use, I would recommend against it.
I had a friend loan his 17 yr old son the money for a small excavator/truck/trailer, and he ran his own landscaping business for a couple summers, and they sold the set afterwards and made some money on that even. I think that is better experience than being a laborer for someone else?
In short, I don't think there's a lot of hard rules in the amount of support for getting young adults independent and on a good track for life, but encouraging strong work ethic is important. Giving them lots of toys so they can have all the fun without some work and learning some future skills, isn't a great way to go IMO.
What you’re describing doesn’t sound like spoiling to me. Taking your adult kids or grandkids out to eat or on vacation or helping out with Christmas is a wonderful gift and a blessing. However co-signing on a truck they cannot afford and/or advising them to drain their saving is assisting in their financial suicide. If the OP had the means and could purchase a truck for his daughter as a gift I don’t think many would see a problem with it.
I believe it was discussed in this recent BITOG thread: Hyundai Tucson HP Fuel Pump Failure
Finish college first , actually start full time job and then make a decision on new vehicle. Keep purchasing price under 50% of year salary so depreciation does not kill her.
Jobs fall through or like myself I delayed life 3 months with a later start date on first FT engineering job to ski out west in Colorado , Utah , Wyoming and British Columbia.
Decision could be anything , be free!
Jobs fall through or like myself I delayed life 3 months with a later start date on first FT engineering job to ski out west in Colorado , Utah , Wyoming and British Columbia.
Decision could be anything , be free!
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My MIL is a poster child for automotive logical fallacies.
"Any car that burns oil is worn out, I don't want to have to open the hood. I have a professional job now and opening the hood is for poor people."
"If you come over here with that car, park on the grass. I just paved my driveway and don't want an oil slick."
"Any car with xxx miles is worn out, I don't mind buying a 20 year old LeSabre if it's got low miles."
It seems in OPs situation there is steam building behind wanting/needing a truck, and the task is figuring out how to let this steam escape so a rational decision is made, even if it is in fact buying a truck. The two women involved are confused about wants vs needs, probably luckily because they've had a well-provided life experience so far. It would be good for the daughter as an entering-adulthood skill to ground herself in the expenses of everyday life, to help her better define wants vs needs. It's hard to come up with this income/expenditure baseline in the semi-dependent, nebulous world of being still in school while working part-time and living at home. (Adding a vehicle compounds this measuring problem.) And this magical time, seeing one's kid enter adulthood and start making grown-up decisions, is wonderful and memorable so one doesn't want to offend the kid and have them move out early. The mom/wife has hangups that sound like my MILs that need airing in the sunlight so it can be seen if they're reasonable, and where the line is that won't be crossed.
"Any car that burns oil is worn out, I don't want to have to open the hood. I have a professional job now and opening the hood is for poor people."
"If you come over here with that car, park on the grass. I just paved my driveway and don't want an oil slick."
"Any car with xxx miles is worn out, I don't mind buying a 20 year old LeSabre if it's got low miles."
It seems in OPs situation there is steam building behind wanting/needing a truck, and the task is figuring out how to let this steam escape so a rational decision is made, even if it is in fact buying a truck. The two women involved are confused about wants vs needs, probably luckily because they've had a well-provided life experience so far. It would be good for the daughter as an entering-adulthood skill to ground herself in the expenses of everyday life, to help her better define wants vs needs. It's hard to come up with this income/expenditure baseline in the semi-dependent, nebulous world of being still in school while working part-time and living at home. (Adding a vehicle compounds this measuring problem.) And this magical time, seeing one's kid enter adulthood and start making grown-up decisions, is wonderful and memorable so one doesn't want to offend the kid and have them move out early. The mom/wife has hangups that sound like my MILs that need airing in the sunlight so it can be seen if they're reasonable, and where the line is that won't be crossed.
Where does she live? If the truck aint 4x4 and you get snow and ice and she hasnt driven RWD it can be a bad deal. AWD or FWD are good.
