A dose of ornery here, but maybe you and your wife should suggest she puts on her "fancy pants" on days she is working for the Vet. Maybe she could catch the eye/interest of one of the wealthy rancher-farmers coming through. LOL! Probably a bad suggestion, never mind.
Car buying scenario for daughter
- Thread starter Bailey28
- Start date
I’m certain your daughter is a good person, and has a kind heart, and loves her horses.
But, oh my heavens, is she disconnected from reality!
She’s going to make $40,000 a year, and thinks that she can maintain two horses and $100,000 truck on that income?
She has not yet had to face fiscal reality, because she lives with you, you probably still pay her cell phone, right?
With essentially zero expenses, that $22 an hour that she’s making feels like a lot of money, but that feeling exists in isolation from reality. She needs to sit down and look at a real budget in which she pays for her own housing, food, clothing. insurance, cable/Internet, cell phone plan, and retirement contributions.
See how much is left over for a car payment.
I’m willing to bet there is not enough left over for horse feed, much less new tack, and certainly not a new vehicle.
But, oh my heavens, is she disconnected from reality!
She’s going to make $40,000 a year, and thinks that she can maintain two horses and $100,000 truck on that income?
She has not yet had to face fiscal reality, because she lives with you, you probably still pay her cell phone, right?
With essentially zero expenses, that $22 an hour that she’s making feels like a lot of money, but that feeling exists in isolation from reality. She needs to sit down and look at a real budget in which she pays for her own housing, food, clothing. insurance, cable/Internet, cell phone plan, and retirement contributions.
See how much is left over for a car payment.
I’m willing to bet there is not enough left over for horse feed, much less new tack, and certainly not a new vehicle.
She sounds like my sister. She is also a horse/animal person. Horses are just big expensive dogs in the modern world. It’s a pet unless she is ranching, showing, breeding, racing etc. To echo what has been said already I think you have been spoiling her a bit and you need to give her a little bit of a reality check. Not in a mean way. It can be done lovingly. She’s not a little girl anymore. She can ride ponies and drive trucks, but she needs to do it on her own. Sounds like she’s playing with her money but living off yours.
I don't think she should but OP can't do much except kick out his daughter out of the house, which would probably end with lots of arguments with the wife too. The daughter is looking too short term, without factoring in rent and utilities if she was to move out with the same car payment; not that I blame her because most people at her age hasn't grasped long term planning yet.
She can't afford the horses, a trailer, a stable, a truck to put the hay in much less one big enough to tow one or two horses , a place on on her own, and seemingly has credit issues. ( based on you believing you'd need to sign for a simple auto loan)
This is an extremely expensive lifestyle for a young person to attain much less sustain.
Sounds like she's on the right track if she works hard as a vet, and that she's healthy and able to do it.
Have her keep driving the car that she has and save the equivalent of rent, health insurance, car insurance, a phone bill, groceries, gas, entertainment, and a rainy day fund as well as contribute to a 401(k) and/or IRA while she lives with you and see what is left before splurging on a truck.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Give your logic based opinion then shut up. You're outnumbered and nothing good will come of pushing your position. You don't have to approve of or subsidize whatever happens.
When kids are in college they should be focusing on college. If a car is even necessary it should be practical and reliable, which the current ride sounds like.
Once they graduate and get "real jobs" then they can evaluate what sort of lifestyle creep they want/ "deserve." It would be best if they went whole hog on "adulting", paying their own rent, health insurance, and student loans, while putting a few percent away for retirement to set a baseline for how much the world costs them, and what benefit that college education and "good job" gives them.
If, at that point, a new car is worth it, then it's worth it. Get a new car while you're still in college, then (some) people will feel they deserve "even more" once they graduate because they "worked hard" blah blah blah. Once you have that caviar taste it's painful to give up...
Horses are huge red flags to an outsider looking at a financial situation on the surface. Sell a horse, then she'll still have a horse, and use that money for the new car. If that's not a tenable deal, there's no deal. GI_Griff is correct though that "horse people" may offer good networking opportunities to break into an "old money" world so she shouldn't completely give up on what she already has.
Once they graduate and get "real jobs" then they can evaluate what sort of lifestyle creep they want/ "deserve." It would be best if they went whole hog on "adulting", paying their own rent, health insurance, and student loans, while putting a few percent away for retirement to set a baseline for how much the world costs them, and what benefit that college education and "good job" gives them.
If, at that point, a new car is worth it, then it's worth it. Get a new car while you're still in college, then (some) people will feel they deserve "even more" once they graduate because they "worked hard" blah blah blah. Once you have that caviar taste it's painful to give up...
Horses are huge red flags to an outsider looking at a financial situation on the surface. Sell a horse, then she'll still have a horse, and use that money for the new car. If that's not a tenable deal, there's no deal. GI_Griff is correct though that "horse people" may offer good networking opportunities to break into an "old money" world so she shouldn't completely give up on what she already has.
OR, you could do what I did for my nephew. Secure her car loan with a CD. This will build her credit on the loan, while at the same time avoid the co-sign. That way, if she defaults on the loan, you would still be out money, but not any more than you would have been on a co-sign. and the credit rating goes to her.
Most replies here are a consensus. Please share the final outcome, which should be interesting either way.
FYI my nurse daughter and grand daughters do the horse thing in Ocala. I'm not a "horse person" , but to each their own. Some people buy boats, others built-in swimming pools, bro trucks, and on and on. My mid life crises involved things like a bicycle and kayak/canoe, which explains a lot about my spending tendencies, lol.
FYI my nurse daughter and grand daughters do the horse thing in Ocala. I'm not a "horse person" , but to each their own. Some people buy boats, others built-in swimming pools, bro trucks, and on and on. My mid life crises involved things like a bicycle and kayak/canoe, which explains a lot about my spending tendencies, lol.
I would sit her down and show her a retirement calculator like Ramsey. Showing her at age 22. If she puts in X amount say starting at $500 a month in a retirement investment account at a modest 8% and at say 12% what her retirement income would be.
Show her the difference in the same numbers if she starts at 30 years old.
Ask her how she is going to get there, buying this truck.
I would try to dissuade this decision, and remind her that while someone else is paying her bills and providing a roof, she should be making good financial decisions.
But i do believe some people need to learn from mistakes. If she has the info, makes the mistake, she has to live with it. Better to learn it as a 22 year old, than when you are not around.
Now if she gets a full time job, perhaps as a real world lesson, she should pay you some amount of rent. She needs to start understanding costs and not just skate living off her parents. I'm all for helping children get started, but they also need to learn how all this works.
You can love them right into the poor house. Or you can love them into financially successful adulthood.
My wife and I are not horse people, but have learned over the years some of what goes on in the horse world. It is not a hobby for the financially unable.
My daughter got these two horses a few years ago and was lucky to have free stable board down the road. She doesn't ask for much however as some of you put it, she seems 'enabled'. That enabling comes from the wife who stated years ago due to her financially difficult childhood she would absolutely spoil this child. And she has over the years. Private school k-5, she did not want for anything. Disney trips, horse lessons and competitions, etc. I said we would never own or buy a horse, and my wife and I have not bought one. My daughter bought the second one for $7,500 which according to her was a smoking deal. She gets a family price on vet visits through her workplace.
I presented that right now she has no bills other than gas and her part of car insurance. Free rent, free food, She pays for her car repairs. I do the maintenance and repairs that I can do at home but anything else is hers. She is fuming about putting out $2,100 on a car that on trade would be $5K, probably less. This is where the wife suggested she get a new(er) truck.
It was billed to me as "Let her take out a loan, stretch it to 6 years, and pay it off while she's still living at home and has no bills".... I cannot stress how much this irks me. I argued this is not the time in her life to do this,,, if you want to trade the Hyundai, fine, but get something more affordable. I argued that employment situations can change, and if you are paying $400/month how is she going to be able to pay for the rent/cable/phone/electric etc. when she does move out?
Then I was thinking, is she going to live with us for 6 years until she pays off the loan? It's like the wife wants to strap her with payments to delay her moving out as she enjoys her company.. .which would be a whole different issue all together.
My daughter got these two horses a few years ago and was lucky to have free stable board down the road. She doesn't ask for much however as some of you put it, she seems 'enabled'. That enabling comes from the wife who stated years ago due to her financially difficult childhood she would absolutely spoil this child. And she has over the years. Private school k-5, she did not want for anything. Disney trips, horse lessons and competitions, etc. I said we would never own or buy a horse, and my wife and I have not bought one. My daughter bought the second one for $7,500 which according to her was a smoking deal. She gets a family price on vet visits through her workplace.
I presented that right now she has no bills other than gas and her part of car insurance. Free rent, free food, She pays for her car repairs. I do the maintenance and repairs that I can do at home but anything else is hers. She is fuming about putting out $2,100 on a car that on trade would be $5K, probably less. This is where the wife suggested she get a new(er) truck.
It was billed to me as "Let her take out a loan, stretch it to 6 years, and pay it off while she's still living at home and has no bills".... I cannot stress how much this irks me. I argued this is not the time in her life to do this,,, if you want to trade the Hyundai, fine, but get something more affordable. I argued that employment situations can change, and if you are paying $400/month how is she going to be able to pay for the rent/cable/phone/electric etc. when she does move out?
Then I was thinking, is she going to live with us for 6 years until she pays off the loan? It's like the wife wants to strap her with payments to delay her moving out as she enjoys her company.. .which would be a whole different issue all together.
Another option i thought of would be, when she is working full time, she can pay you $500 rent, OR pay you no rent if she puts $500 a month in a 401/403 account.
Since the problem is a lack of confidence in her car's reliability, the answer is simple. Get her a AAA membership. Problem solved.
My wife is also an enabler with our kids but for different reasons. I kind of got the sense that mom was leading this conversation and you are trying to be supportive to both. I very much can relate. This is why my first comment was about you and mom getting together. You have to get her on board first otherwise you’ll just be the bad guy trying to hurt her baby. My wife would spoil our kids rotten if I allowed it. We had to work on us to get to a place where when I said no, mom would agree. Now she sees it more my way and understands enabling is bad medicine.
He can also talk to his wife, along the lines, of ; Would you like our daughter to one day be a millionaire? Show her what i mentioned above, and how its done.
First thought is your not likely to get $5K trade on a 10 year old Hyundai - even if they make it look like you are.
Second thought is what truck are you getting new for $30K? Maybe stripped down Frontier, or Maverick. Both reasonable vehicles.
Over-riding thought - since your wife already decided say yes dear and move on - except I would try to find a way not to co-sign. If she has a job she likely can get financing, at a rate that would make you and I puke but thats how you learn I guess.
Second thought is what truck are you getting new for $30K? Maybe stripped down Frontier, or Maverick. Both reasonable vehicles.
Over-riding thought - since your wife already decided say yes dear and move on - except I would try to find a way not to co-sign. If she has a job she likely can get financing, at a rate that would make you and I puke but thats how you learn I guess.
I find that emotional decisions like enabling can rarely be offset with math or logic. If you want a window into human trauma and how it works go watch some episodes of the TV show “Hoarders.” Often times the people are about to lose their homes and all their possessions. And they still are unable to give up their habits and behaviors despite said home and possessions being the most important things to them.
ATEX 7239 you must be a fly on the walls in our house!! This is exactly what goes on (not the hoarding part).
RipCord, we have AAA gold, and they have been putting the miles on their trucks due to our membership.
Spasm3, excellent. This is what I have done over the years. Invested, saved, just shy of retirement now for both of us. A dollar now is $50 a decade from now if invested.
On top of all of this, I would sell her the Veloster I have now with 75k on it that runs great. I have the Charger, ElCamino, and Harley to drive. Problem is she doesn't 'want' the Veloster. I was thinking sell the Tucson, and she could 'buy' the Veloster with that money.
I even offered to pick up the hay for her every month or so with the ElCamino but that was refused. That's the only reason she wanted the truck.
RipCord, we have AAA gold, and they have been putting the miles on their trucks due to our membership.
Spasm3, excellent. This is what I have done over the years. Invested, saved, just shy of retirement now for both of us. A dollar now is $50 a decade from now if invested.
On top of all of this, I would sell her the Veloster I have now with 75k on it that runs great. I have the Charger, ElCamino, and Harley to drive. Problem is she doesn't 'want' the Veloster. I was thinking sell the Tucson, and she could 'buy' the Veloster with that money.
I even offered to pick up the hay for her every month or so with the ElCamino but that was refused. That's the only reason she wanted the truck.
