My take was they knew that the high (est @the time) specific output engine 2.0tgdi was a ticking time bomb on 5W-30 dino and wanted to back door the required 'full synthetic' thicker oil. Hyundai had to have a law suit to acknowledge the theta 2 problems, pentastar owners will probably have to do the same thing.
Can thicker oil prevent rocker arm failures in Pentastar 3.6 V6?
- Thread starter easym
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As an M.E. I would say small torrington style roller bearing under high loading and speed in a Class Three lever + marginal parts quality = marginal service life.
I would say that 80-100 K out of a roller isn't bad though
Something to be said about simple, proven shim under bucket DOHC in an oil bath
I would say that 80-100 K out of a roller isn't bad though
Something to be said about simple, proven shim under bucket DOHC in an oil bath
I don't see where @easym says what year this ram is. What year is "slightly used"?
Some pentastars had problems early on with valvetrains that no oil would fix. After a few years revisions seemed to have solved that. They are easy on oil and as long as you use anything close to the factory spec weight I don't think it will make much difference.
Some pentastars had problems early on with valvetrains that no oil would fix. After a few years revisions seemed to have solved that. They are easy on oil and as long as you use anything close to the factory spec weight I don't think it will make much difference.
Hope 240 is normal. I've never seen more than 224 in the worst of conditions. I've not seen that in any Jeep I've owned. But 240 is still a cakewalk for any decent 0w20, especially M1 EP. And are you certain that your choice of 5w30 will handle higher temps before breaking down than M1 EP 0w20? I'm not so sure.
My old F150 that I sold to a friend is pushing 200k on a diet of 5w20. My 08 Jeep JK has 171k, with LOTS of off-road work, on a diet of 20 weight oils and runs like new. So what exacly did they need that they haven't had?
You don't need a .30-06 to shoot a squirrel when a .22 will do just fine. And it will actually do better if you plan to eat the squirrel.
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You the man. I like your talk.
You don't use .50 for squirrels? .338 win mag left too many ounces for me...
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Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
Any thread with the word "viscosity" in it will become a thick vs thin debate. When there is only one sole viscosity for sale in the world is when thick vs thin discussions will cease.
Or anther thread where we try to use various oil viscosities/additives to compensate for bad engineering (assuming the OP had a valid concern backed up by TB's and catastrophic failures reported)...
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Having owned two pentastars, one in our 2013 Grand Caravan and one in my 2017 Ram 1500, the brand, type, viscosity range, etc. of the oil would be my least of concerns.
Like said, these little engines hold ~7quarts and aren't known to have lubrication related failures as far as I know. I ran 5w30 synthetic in mine at a 6000mi OCI.
The only things that concern me about pentastars is all the plastic bits used on the cooling system and the lousy oil filter/cooler assembly. Not only the assembly, but it's location.
Like said, these little engines hold ~7quarts and aren't known to have lubrication related failures as far as I know. I ran 5w30 synthetic in mine at a 6000mi OCI.
The only things that concern me about pentastars is all the plastic bits used on the cooling system and the lousy oil filter/cooler assembly. Not only the assembly, but it's location.
The analogy might be better if it was a hungry mountian lion trying to eat you instead of you trying to eat a squirrel.
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My normal oil temperature is 220°F-225°F, but when rock crawling and go slowly where there is minimal airflow through the grill, the oil temperatures can rise to 240°F and above--this is a well-known issue as is the power steering overheating for Jeep JL's with large tires. My UOA's are not showing any issues related to heat, breakdown, or thickening and therefore, I am confident that it can handle the temperatures as well as M1 (which I am not really a fan of and do/will not use it).
As I said, to each his or her own, but physics are physics...
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That 5w30 heating things up. Like a trained runner getting a blood transfusion from a 400 lbs man with high cholesterol.
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Bovine Scatology! Are you seriously trying to tell me that a single viscosity change is going to make the oil temperatures rise that high when in normal operation they are the same as 0W-20 OR 0W-40? Why are they not higher when I am running down the highway unloaded or in stop and go traffic?
It is clear there is some sort of agenda here as well as a lot of confirmation bias so I will leave you guys to play with it...
To add ... the physics of lubrication (ie, look at the Stribeck Curve) also shows that as the velocity between parts decreases and the load increases the MOFT also decrease (ie, the friction increases which means wear also increases). The slowly increasing friction in the hydrodynamic area of lubrication is mostly from the viscous shearing friction of the oil itself, not friction from metal-to-metal rubbing contact.
A higher viscosity can help increase the MOFT in low RPM high load conditions. If the oil has some very good AF/AW additives it will help out, but viscosity is really the best line of defense so that moving surfaces don't start rubbing as much in the first place.
With all things being constant except for RPM and load, engine protection is going in the wrong direction if the engine is lugged hard at low RPM. It puts more load on the rod and crank bearings while at the same time decreasing the film thickness due to low RPM. If you are doing low RPM lugging, a thicker oil will help provide better MOFT and wear protection. Ever see worn rod bearings where most of the wear is on the top (loaded) side of the bearing? That happens when the MOFT goes to zero from low viscosity and high loads pounding the rods down during higher load episodes, causing a higher degree of metal-to-metal contact and wear.
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Here's a good video explaining basic lubrication and how the Stribeck curve relates. Note that he mentions how to get the curve to shift by using a higher viscosity which gives more film thickness (ie, MOFT) which results in less friction and less wear. Also realize that oii heating up is also caused by parts rubbing together, not just the oil shearing. If a decreased MOFT allows more rubbing friction, then there will also be more heat generated which is absorbed by the oil. Many factors going on.
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Mine is 5.0; I wish it was 6.0 or 7.0.
As already noted this reply is like many of yours that are devoid of knowledgeable facts. To me it appears you make posts mostly to create a stir rather than advance the discussion.
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Only thing being avoided is the actual facts that I asked about proof on the 3.6 pentastar having additional wear from off-roading and rock crawling running 0w20. Was any actual tests done where two 3.6 pentastar’s were run through the same conditions one with a 20wt the other 30wt then torn apart for examination? Or is this simply yet another hijacked thread to start a thick thin debate?