Mobil 1 ESP Cleaning Ability/ BG EPR

[carl1963]

I got rid of my oil burner 2.4 Equinox last year due to a bad catalytic converter and now I'm putting more miles on my 2012 Cadillac CTS with the 3.6 LFX so that has me more focused on oil changes. I bought it with 103k miles with a binder full of service records that showed oil changes at the same Cadillac dealer it's whole life every 6-8k miles. It now has 147k miles, I've done 5k oil changes with 5W30 Redline, PUP, M1 EP and most recently M1 ESP 0W30 due to it being highly recommended on here. The only time during my ownership that the car has used oil was the first OCI I did, 7k with Redline. It used just under half a quart. Ever since then with 5k mile OCIs the car hasn't used any oil which is quite impressive given the 3.6 history and my lead foot driving habits. The car sees redline quite frequently and a bit of idling since I use remote start to get the heat or AC going. The most recent oil change I used BG EPR before draining the 5k mile M1 EP and filling with fresh M1 ESP. I wasn't trying to accomplish anything with the EPR it was just a leftover can from my unsuccessful efforts to stop/slow my Equinox oil burning and I figured I would use it up.

Onto my question: I'm now just over 2k miles into the OCI with M1 ESP and the oil is still clean. I'm used to the oil being dark by 1500 miles. Not diesel black, just dark brown showing its used oil. The oil looks just a tad darker than fresh oil out of the bottle. Did the EPR clean something or is ESP not the cleaning oil I thought it was? This oil has seen some abuse too I was recently on a 500ish mile 2 car road trip in the mountains with lots of twisty corners and I was having a blast as the lead car keeping that 3.6 strung out to high rpms making some beautiful noises (for a V6... it's no big block with long tubes!). I just expected some color to it at this point in the OCI. To my knowledge all GDI engines pollute the oil and turn it dark not long after an oil change, my Equinox would have the oil black within 500 miles but that was due to poor ring seal allowing the combustion gases to contaminate the oil. Anyone able to chime in on knowledge/experience with M1 ESP and BG EPR?

 

[Boomer]

My VWs are GDI and the oils stays very clean and a light color for several thousand miles after aa change. I notice that if it is darker, , a long trip will make it lighter in color again. Must be all the filtration.

 

[buster]

Hard to say because you used BG EPR. ESP could be using a different type of AO which does impact the color of oil it seems.

 

[BISCUT]

I have used HPL but largely stick with Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Plat with some Valvoline when sales make it a no-brainer. HPL is as good as it gets but above my needs. Reading the oils you are using and seeking cleaning, I would run a few OCI's of HPL and check my filters. Then go from there.

 

[Stimp]

I had a similar experience with my Buick. Ran EPR at the last oil change, and oil was clean after 1k mi when it would usually look dark. Now after 5k it looks like used oil, but not like it would have previously.

 

[Cujet]

The oil's color has, in this case, little to do with its cleaning ability. Given the history here, your engine is very likely to be perfect inside, nothing to clean.

I'd say it's the nature of the oil and the oxidation characteristics of the additive package.

My old X-Type with 230K miles is also perfectly clean inside. When I use the M1 HM oils, they get black instantly. Other flavors of high end oils stay amber.

 

[carl1963]

I have used HPL but largely stick with Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Plat with some Valvoline when sales make it a no-brainer. HPL is as good as it gets but above my needs. Reading the oils you are using and seeking cleaning, I would run a few OCI's of HPL and check my filters. Then go from there.

HPL seems to be a fine product but due to the price I would have to run it at least 10k miles to make it cost effective and while I'm sure it's great oil, I'm worried my remote start usage would make fuel dillition come into play. I'm in the camp of "good oil changed every 5k is better for your engine than very good oil changed every 10k". I've pretty much stuck with the higher end $30/jug Walmart offerings (PUP, M1 EP, ESP etc) aside from the 1 Redline OCI I did. Another thing that concerns me is I'm not sure if that half quart of usage was a one off thing related to Redline itself or the 7k OCI, but regardless I'm not looking to have another oil burner/catalyst poisoner on my hands after dealing with my Equinox.

I had a similar experience with my Buick. Ran EPR at the last oil change, and oil was clean after 1k mi when it would usually look dark. Now after 5k it looks like used oil, but not like it would have previously.

EPR is definitely good at cleaning. While it didn't solve my Equinox oil burning (a low tension ring design flaw rather than dirty rings) it cleaned out the 2.4 well and I did notice a little more "junk" than usual in the filter of the CTS after using it.

The oil's color has, in this case, little to do with its cleaning ability. Given the history here, your engine is very likely to be perfect inside, nothing to clean.

I'd say it's the nature of the oil and the oxidation characteristics of the additive package.

My old X-Type with 230K miles is also perfectly clean inside. When I use the M1 HM oils, they get black instantly. Other flavors of high end oils stay amber.

I also believe the engine is clean inside. With the service history of the 1st owner and myself, plus my driving habits (no short trips, frequent high rpms once engine is at temp and never any sludge under the oil cap) I don't see a reason to believe the engine wouldn't be clean as a whistle. The engine runs very smooth and I also keep up on other maintenence- air filters, fuel treatment, spark plugs were changed with AC Delco Iridium when I took ownership of the car.

 

[BISCUT]

I'm with you!! Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Plat w some Valvoline in there, I am confident if I have an issue, it isn't the oil choice!

 

[ChrisD46]

Currently have M1 0W30 ESP in both a 2017 Hyundai 2.4L GDI and a 2021 Kia 2.0L MPI engines . Both engines showing a darker oil color earlier in the OCI with 0W30 ESP than before using (the GDI engine 0W30 ESP oil color is darker). Both engines previously ran M1 5W30 EP oil for <5K mile OCI’s . Even if both oils are M1 formulations , the M1 ESP oil may be responding differently (cleaning) than the M1 EP oil it replaced . Both vehicles run well on the 0W30 ESP oil - very smooth and quiet .

 

[addyguy]

BGR is a detergent add AFAIK that would increase TBN. On an already clean engine, 6-7k should not be a problem.
If it was an engine not known for being hard on oil I might say 10k, but that is a lot for a 3.6.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

when you say the oil is dark is this on the dipstick?

I can run a 5000 mile oci and check the oil on the dipstick and it is honey colored, drain it and it is black as coal

 

[OilUzer]

I would ask the question again two years from now. Right now, M1 ESP does everything you want it to do.

Industry may need a new approval for "cleaning"!

 

[carl1963]

BGR is a detergent add AFAIK that would increase TBN. On an already clean engine, 6-7k should not be a problem.
If it was an engine not known for being hard on oil I might say 10k, but that is a lot for a 3.6.

BG EPR is an engine flush added to the oil, ran for about 15 mins at approx 1500 rpm and drained with the old oil. There shouldn't be anything more than trace amounts left over. It is not an oil additive through the OCI.

when you say the oil is dark is this on the dipstick?

I can run a 5000 mile oci and check the oil on the dipstick and it is honey colored, drain it and it is black as coal

Yes on the dipstick. I have not drained the ESP yet and don't plan to do so until I have 5k miles on it. 2500 miles today and it still has not changed color much. It's barely a touch darker on the dipstick than if I dipped it into a fresh oil bottle. I'm not used to this behavior on a GDI engine, I've had older PFI cars that would keep the oil clean for 5k.

 

[carl1963]

3k miles as of today and the oil is starting to take on a darker golden brown color. I'm going to do a UOA at 5k when I change the oil.
At this point in the car's life and mileage I think it would be interesting to see what is going on inside the engine. I'm not sure what oil I'll use next but I would like to find an oil that quiets valve train noise a little better. These DI 3.6s are a bit noisy, I parked next to a new Cadillac XT6 the other day that was running and their engine sounded identical to mine. None of the oils I have ran seemed to do much to quiet the noise- maybe Redline was a touch quieter? Not worth the expense for me. I may try a 5W40 or 0W40 as the weather warms up and my driving gets a bit more spirited. I can't keep my foot out of this thing... I could never imagine driving my Equinox this way but this Caddy wants to GO! I'd get in so much trouble with a 6.2L CTS V

 

[doublebase]

As far as turning an oil dark quickly…

Mobil1 EP for me stays pretty light colored until the 4,000 mile mark and then gradually gets darker up until I change it at 10,000 miles.

Mobil1 ESP 0W30 went darker quicker, around 2,000 miles but hasn’t changed much since.

Amsoil Signature Series went dark very quickly.

Pennzoil Ultra was very slow turning dark and linear like the Mobil1 EP.

NAPA house brand synthetic, Super Tech, Amalie, regular Mobil1 synthetic all darkened similar to the Mobil1 EP and Pennzoil.

I have no idea if heat cycles played a roll in any or all of this ^^^ but I drive my car pretty much the same everyday. 60 mile round trip commute in temps between 25-35 in winter and 60-90 in summer. 400-500 miles a week.

 

[carl1963]

As far as turning an oil dark quickly…

Mobil1 EP for me stays pretty light colored until the 4,000 mile mark and then gradually gets darker up until I change it at 10,000 miles.

Mobil1 ESP 0W30 went darker quicker, around 2,000 miles but hasn’t changed much since.

Amsoil Signature Series went dark very quickly.

Pennzoil Ultra was very slow turning dark and linear like the Mobil1 EP.

NAPA house brand synthetic, Super Tech, Amalie, regular Mobil1 synthetic all darkened similar to the Mobil1 EP and Pennzoil.

I have no idea if heat cycles played a roll in any or all of this ^^^ but I drive my car pretty much the same everyday. 60 mile round trip commute in temps between 25-35 in winter and 60-90 in summer. 400-500 miles a week.

I would think heat/aggressive driving would darken the oil quicker which added to my surprise of light colored oil as I have not been gentle on this M1 ESP. Even now with 3k this darker gold color is still not what I would think of when I think "used oil". Very interested in seeing what the UOA shows at 5k when I drain it.

 

[cryptolyme]

I would think heat/aggressive driving would darken the oil quicker which added to my surprise of light colored oil as I have not been gentle on this M1 ESP. Even now with 3k this darker gold color is still not what I would think of when I think "used oil". Very interested in seeing what the UOA shows at 5k when I drain it.

yea, in my experience, my oil never gets lighter with a TGDI engine. it gets pretty dark after a few thousand miles and continues to get darker until i drain it. i do drive it pretty hard though.

 

[Majsmith]

3k miles as of today and the oil is starting to take on a darker golden brown color. I'm going to do a UOA at 5k when I change the oil.
At this point in the car's life and mileage I think it would be interesting to see what is going on inside the engine. I'm not sure what oil I'll use next but I would like to find an oil that quiets valve train noise a little better. These DI 3.6s are a bit noisy, I parked next to a new Cadillac XT6 the other day that was running and their engine sounded identical to mine. None of the oils I have ran seemed to do much to quiet the noise- maybe Redline was a touch quieter? Not worth the expense for me. I may try a 5W40 or 0W40 as the weather warms up and my driving gets a bit more spirited. I can't keep my foot out of this thing... I could never imagine driving my Equinox this way but this Caddy wants to GO! I'd get in so much trouble with a 6.2L CTS V

You should hunt a CTS Vsport ...had one for 10 years. I ran M1 0w40 in it and it was spotless inside. With a tune that thing gave a ZL1 fits!!
Just needs better brakes...gone but not forgotten.

 

[D1dad]

The oil's color has, in this case, little to do with its cleaning ability. Given the history here, your engine is very likely to be perfect inside, nothing to clean.

I'd say it's the nature of the oil and the oxidation characteristics of the additive package.

My old X-Type with 230K miles is also perfectly clean inside. When I use the M1 HM oils, they get black instantly. Other flavors of high end oils stay amber.

While I suppose that’s probably, and most likely is true. Way before an oil analysis was ever a thing, I was taught to change it when dirty. My wife doesn’t mop with dirty water to clean floors and I don’t trust dirty oil to keep my engine clean.

 

[Patman]

While I suppose that’s probably, and most likely is true. Way before an oil analysis was ever a thing, I was taught to change it when dirty. My wife doesn’t mop with dirty water to clean floors and I don’t trust dirty oil to keep my engine clean.

What would you do if you owned a diesel? They turn the oil black immediately after you change it. Color is never an indication of the oil being in need of a change