And...you can see Mobil 1's "million mile" partial test results (there are several of them) on their Mobil1.c.o.m./index.jsp internet site. Mobil talks about OCI's from 3K to 15K, but not necessarily associated with the 1KK runs.
can Amsoil ASL 5w30 really stand 25000 miles?
- Thread starter grcmptrnrd
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One problem with the full 25,000 OCI is how many people make it that far in a year? I'm changing out my Amsoil today (S2000, 1 full year) and I think I'm going to come in under 20,000mi.
Greg
Greg
TomJones76-
The individual that ran that amount in his Taurus was an amsoil dealer. I talked to Frank, the mechanic that repaired that car, which he remembers well, and he said the man followed the instructions and just didn't ahve good luck. He said he was proving his oil point with his Taurus. Unfortuneately, it didn't go well. I did see a car with 202,000 on its clock that had a diet of Amsoil 10-30 since 28000 miles. The individual used Wix oil filters, changing them every 3-4K with a fresh top off quart and ran the oil 12-15K, changing the air filter every 5K. The engine was very clean and ran great! That was a good testimony to Amsoil. It is a good oil, exceptional in fact...but 25,000 miles?...maybe not such a good idea. Tom, I just couldn't recommend, in good conscience at least, driving 25000 miles on any oil. Yes, maybe it will be somewhat adequate under the most ideal conditions...but for a 25000 mile run of miles, what vehicle sees all 25000 miles as idea? I have to quench when trying to get 10000 out of Mobil-1 and changing the filter at 5K. I think of all the different temps (-30'-100'F), short trips, idle time, etc that goes on during that time...and remembering the STS's oil life indicator only went 1400 miles one cold winter before wanting an oil change. All that factored, it just makes 25000 seem very high for a recommendation. That is all. No controversy, just writing from experience.
The individual that ran that amount in his Taurus was an amsoil dealer. I talked to Frank, the mechanic that repaired that car, which he remembers well, and he said the man followed the instructions and just didn't ahve good luck. He said he was proving his oil point with his Taurus. Unfortuneately, it didn't go well. I did see a car with 202,000 on its clock that had a diet of Amsoil 10-30 since 28000 miles. The individual used Wix oil filters, changing them every 3-4K with a fresh top off quart and ran the oil 12-15K, changing the air filter every 5K. The engine was very clean and ran great! That was a good testimony to Amsoil. It is a good oil, exceptional in fact...but 25,000 miles?...maybe not such a good idea. Tom, I just couldn't recommend, in good conscience at least, driving 25000 miles on any oil. Yes, maybe it will be somewhat adequate under the most ideal conditions...but for a 25000 mile run of miles, what vehicle sees all 25000 miles as idea? I have to quench when trying to get 10000 out of Mobil-1 and changing the filter at 5K. I think of all the different temps (-30'-100'F), short trips, idle time, etc that goes on during that time...and remembering the STS's oil life indicator only went 1400 miles one cold winter before wanting an oil change. All that factored, it just makes 25000 seem very high for a recommendation. That is all. No controversy, just writing from experience.
Why not ask Steverino, he ran Mobil 1 10-30 for 50,000 miles using the Trasko Oil Filter with UOA. I would think under certain driving and engine conditions filtering the oil is a must for extended oil interval. I've driven Amsoil S2K 0-30 for 12K using Amsoil Oil Filter changed at 6K and felt confident it did it's job. With the Trasko filter and LC/FC, I feel the Amsoil can go a lot further than 12K and will extended until I feel it's needed to be changed. Amsoil is far superior than dino and with a clean engine it can be extended if properly used.
Sorry for making assumptions back there.
Questions like this really make me wish I had a large research budget, and could do controlled experiments on topics like this, with a large enough pool of test subject motors that my results would be statistically useful.
Anyone out there have a few tens of millions of $s they wanna' throw at this question?
I'd be happy to buy 36 Ford Taurus (Tauri) and have them bench tested with Amsoil in 'em, to see what kind of results we get...
I would really, really love to get my hands on the data that I *know* the car companies have to have on this kind of stuff. Fat chance of getting it though...
You're right yannis - a 6 cyl. BMW ran 1KK on a "treadmill." The GM cars, lasted 200K in their respective tests "they said," probably had door handles & steering wheel break off, sprung seats, rusted floorboard (even in-doors!), metal fatigue, etc. I'm sure the K&N air filter would have been blamed.
corrected link
[ May 02, 2004, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
The key is that it's 25,000 miles or one year - WHICHEVER COMES FIRST, with regular filter changes. If you are using the Amsoil Super Duty filter, the filter should be changed at six months, regardless of the # of miles on the oil. The filter changes help keep the total solids level in check, they dilute any contaminents and they partially replenish the additives in the used oil ....
The reason for the one year time limit is to account for differences in individual driving conditions. If you drive 25k in one year, that's 500 miles per week, week in and week out. As a practical matter, that means you are doing lots of highway driving and/or you have an engine that is kept running and sees few cold starts. OTOH, if you run only 7k-10k in a year, but it's all short trips, you can get more oil degradation than after 20k miles of strictly highway driving.
The average trip length of a passenger car is probably 15-25 miles. Under those conditions, I'd estimate up to 50% of the total oil contamination occurs during the warmup phase. Once the engine is fully warmed up and running efficiently, little oil contamination occurs. The pistons have fully expanded, you're getting an excellent ring seal and gas/moisture are kept at extremely low equilibrium levels.
People focus on the 25k interval, when they really should be focused on the idea of changing Amsoil at least once a year ....
For what its' worth, I get a little tired of negative comments about Amsoil dealers. I'll put my technical knowledge and 26 years of practical experience with Amsoil up against anybody selling Mobil 1, Redline, or any other lubricant for that matter.
Tooslick
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
The reason for the one year time limit is to account for differences in individual driving conditions. If you drive 25k in one year, that's 500 miles per week, week in and week out. As a practical matter, that means you are doing lots of highway driving and/or you have an engine that is kept running and sees few cold starts. OTOH, if you run only 7k-10k in a year, but it's all short trips, you can get more oil degradation than after 20k miles of strictly highway driving.
The average trip length of a passenger car is probably 15-25 miles. Under those conditions, I'd estimate up to 50% of the total oil contamination occurs during the warmup phase. Once the engine is fully warmed up and running efficiently, little oil contamination occurs. The pistons have fully expanded, you're getting an excellent ring seal and gas/moisture are kept at extremely low equilibrium levels.
People focus on the 25k interval, when they really should be focused on the idea of changing Amsoil at least once a year ....
For what its' worth, I get a little tired of negative comments about Amsoil dealers. I'll put my technical knowledge and 26 years of practical experience with Amsoil up against anybody selling Mobil 1, Redline, or any other lubricant for that matter.
Tooslick
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
While not an Amsoil dealer I am a preferred buyer (mainly to get the discount).
I just changed the oil in my 90 Taurus after 25K miles with Amsoil 5W30 and SDF filters.
Everything in the UOA was normal except the viscosity was more like 35 rather than 30 (at 100 degrees).
Let me know if you want me to post something specific from the report.
I just changed the oil in my 90 Taurus after 25K miles with Amsoil 5W30 and SDF filters.
Everything in the UOA was normal except the viscosity was more like 35 rather than 30 (at 100 degrees).
Let me know if you want me to post something specific from the report.
The Mobil 1 test engine was an Oldsmoble engine and the oil was changed at the manufactures maximum recomended change interval I think. Mobil 1 origionally advertised 20 or 25,000 mile oil changes but droped it quickly when the major US manufactures would not honor any warrenty clames if owners extended the change interval to more than the recomended. Mobil 1 then said they would warrenty an engine for 1,000,000 miles if an oil related failure occured and I think that warrenty is still good. Ed Hayes
"For what it's worth, I get a little tired of negative comments about Amsoil dealers. I'll put my technical knowledge and 26 years of practical experience....."
for whats it's worth, a lot of us out here in the real world get tired of some guy that claims to be a 'oil expert' telling us that I/we don't know anything when it comes carcare even after 40+ years of 'practical experience' that started with growing up in a auto-shop working there from the age of 9 on(50today) only to find out his claim of expertice is from something he read and has never even worked on a car, let alone changed any oil. I'm not saying Amsoil is bad-far from it!(have used before with no complains except for price/availability) It's just the way they sell it that ticks me off when that self proclaimed "oil expert" doesn't know what he's talking about. Granted there will be the legit one(and yes you-TooSlick-seem to have a good understanding of what you speak here)who know what they are talking about-probaly 1 for every 100 who don't!!! Most of the 'dealers' that I have met are just someone who has paid some fee so as to buy their own oil at some "discounted dealer" cost for themselves and now have the idea that they are some oil expert!!!!
for whats it's worth, a lot of us out here in the real world get tired of some guy that claims to be a 'oil expert' telling us that I/we don't know anything when it comes carcare even after 40+ years of 'practical experience' that started with growing up in a auto-shop working there from the age of 9 on(50today) only to find out his claim of expertice is from something he read and has never even worked on a car, let alone changed any oil. I'm not saying Amsoil is bad-far from it!(have used before with no complains except for price/availability) It's just the way they sell it that ticks me off when that self proclaimed "oil expert" doesn't know what he's talking about. Granted there will be the legit one(and yes you-TooSlick-seem to have a good understanding of what you speak here)who know what they are talking about-probaly 1 for every 100 who don't!!! Most of the 'dealers' that I have met are just someone who has paid some fee so as to buy their own oil at some "discounted dealer" cost for themselves and now have the idea that they are some oil expert!!!!
Good post TwoSlick.
Too Slick, when you decided to sell Amsoil you bought into a system that has lot of dirt bags peddling their products. You can't complain too much if the broad brush occasionally drips some paint on you.
If Amsoil got rid of some of the incompetents peddling their products, it would make life a lot easier for you good guys. I doubt that is going to happen beacause it has been going on for a long time, so I can only assume it is condoned by upper management.
That's why I would never buy an Amsoil product, even If I believed it was the best product in the universe. I don't need to deal with a company that turns sales 'droids like some of your sleazier brethern lose on the public to get good oil.
Even if one were to accept that Amsoil were the best oil in the world, a few others are so close it doesn't matter.
Fact: Amsoil marketing leaves a little to be desired.
Fact: Many amsoil dealer's don't know squat.
Fact: Tooslick, Pablo, and Msparks are 3 of the most knowledgeable, helpful and honest amsoil dealers that you will ever come across. They sometimes question amsoils claims, marketing and products for certain applications............and will actually recommend competing products for certain applications. You won't find too many oil dealers from any company that are that honest.
Fact: Amsoil makes top notch stuff.
Let us remember these facts before this thread degrades into some kind of Pro-amsoil/anti amsoil free for all.
The original post was a question about 25k drains on amsoil.
We are all here to learn and rejoice in the sweet lifeblood of combustion.
[ May 02, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
Fact: Many amsoil dealer's don't know squat.
Fact: Tooslick, Pablo, and Msparks are 3 of the most knowledgeable, helpful and honest amsoil dealers that you will ever come across. They sometimes question amsoils claims, marketing and products for certain applications............and will actually recommend competing products for certain applications. You won't find too many oil dealers from any company that are that honest.
Fact: Amsoil makes top notch stuff.
Let us remember these facts before this thread degrades into some kind of Pro-amsoil/anti amsoil free for all.
We are all here to learn and rejoice in the sweet lifeblood of combustion.
[ May 02, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
Dittos sbc! I sit at the feet of these 3 fellow board members and am in awe of their knowledge.
I wish I had the cajones to go 25K. I like changing my oil. I'm going for a 9K run with Terry's guidance, and am tempted to change it at only 5K. Hard to break those habits! Seeing those who go 25K shows that there is hope for me after all!
Ted - don't worry everybody here knows how good you are. Just wish we could clone you and migrate the clone to Australia!
Wow. This thread seems to have gotten real heated and off topic, although we are coming back to the original topic.
To answer msparks, I can call myself a dealer because I sent amsoil my $15 for 6 months. That makes me a dealer. I became a dealer because I believe that the asl 5w30 is a better product than all the other 5w30 products out there. And yes, you are right, my knowledge does pale in comparison to yours and many others here. And yes I could get more training from Amsoil themselves, but somehow I believe that Amsoil's opinion may be biased. I'm in a public forum because I am looking for a broader perspective. I'm not even sure how to interpret a UOA yet, but I'll learn. And I believe given some time, I will become much more knowledgeable like some of the others here in this forum.
I really think that Tooslick is right about the year being more important than the year being more important than the 25000 miles since most people never drive that many miles a year. I have seen a thread on maxima.org that interpreted a UOA for the amsoil oil for a whole year that showed that the oil lasted the whole year.
I probably drive less than 25000 miles a year, although I'll probably be getting closer now that I drive between GA and TX.
Because I'm going to tell people that this oil last 25k/yr whichever comes first, I do think that it's important for me to be able to see some real world evidence of the product doing it's job. I'd like to see UOAs for vehicles that have gotten 20-25k a year. I just didn't see higher mileage UOAs than about 15k on this forum. I'd like to hear the good and the bad. I'd also am interested in hearing for examples the stories about that terrible Taurus that had the engine failure while running amsoil. And I'm not sure that it's right to assume that the filter wasn't changed. It may be a good idea to ask if that filter was changed.
This thread really has the potential to strengthen or weaken amsoil's 25k/yr claim. Let's be objective.
To answer msparks, I can call myself a dealer because I sent amsoil my $15 for 6 months. That makes me a dealer. I became a dealer because I believe that the asl 5w30 is a better product than all the other 5w30 products out there. And yes, you are right, my knowledge does pale in comparison to yours and many others here. And yes I could get more training from Amsoil themselves, but somehow I believe that Amsoil's opinion may be biased. I'm in a public forum because I am looking for a broader perspective. I'm not even sure how to interpret a UOA yet, but I'll learn. And I believe given some time, I will become much more knowledgeable like some of the others here in this forum.
I really think that Tooslick is right about the year being more important than the year being more important than the 25000 miles since most people never drive that many miles a year. I have seen a thread on maxima.org that interpreted a UOA for the amsoil oil for a whole year that showed that the oil lasted the whole year.
I probably drive less than 25000 miles a year, although I'll probably be getting closer now that I drive between GA and TX.
Because I'm going to tell people that this oil last 25k/yr whichever comes first, I do think that it's important for me to be able to see some real world evidence of the product doing it's job. I'd like to see UOAs for vehicles that have gotten 20-25k a year. I just didn't see higher mileage UOAs than about 15k on this forum. I'd like to hear the good and the bad. I'd also am interested in hearing for examples the stories about that terrible Taurus that had the engine failure while running amsoil. And I'm not sure that it's right to assume that the filter wasn't changed. It may be a good idea to ask if that filter was changed.
This thread really has the potential to strengthen or weaken amsoil's 25k/yr claim. Let's be objective.
Part of the problem is that even if you run an oil 25,000 miles or one year the actual interpretation of whether it did its job of lubricating well without forming deposits etc. is a matter of subjectivity. The UOA at 25,000 miles, I would venture to bet that 95% of the people on this site would heavily object to the wear numbers generated at that interval yet many Amsoil dealers would probably say the oil held up fine.
A mater of interpretaion and what one can live with. Can you live with a TBN of 1.0, maybe you can after 25,000 miles, many people cannot. In my own situatuion I have not been able to run Amsoil beyond 12-15,000 miles before my numbers become too unbearable for me.
[ May 03, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Spector ]
A mater of interpretaion and what one can live with. Can you live with a TBN of 1.0, maybe you can after 25,000 miles, many people cannot. In my own situatuion I have not been able to run Amsoil beyond 12-15,000 miles before my numbers become too unbearable for me.
[ May 03, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Spector ]
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