Can 0w20 handle high RPMs
- Thread starter Doublehaul
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What is the maximum oil tempature and for how long.
You know where I stand. 0w20 winter and 0w40 summer. I believe the 3.5 needs severe ocis for life in the Tacoma. My winters are mild but my summers are very hot(1teens at work). Sometimes I am busting down dirt / caliche roads in then1teens, others. I am on the highway driving 80-85. The winds near Sonora and ozone Texas goi g through the hills decide if I get to use fith and sixth at all or if I am goi g to spend a few hours in 3rd and 4th.
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
Lots of posts from me in regards to high RPMs and which oil to use...I apologize. Perhaps I'm overthinking this...2 tacomas...a 3.5 and a 2.7...both 2019s...both spec 0w20 but allow for a heavier grade for high speed driving.
With my travels, both average about 3-3500 RPMs. Any reason to think the recommended 0w20s won't handle it? Will a 30 or maybe a 40 do it better? Both must make a 10k oci. Toyota does make an amendment to run a heavier grade. I can't find any UOAs with my usage to point me in the correct direction.
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
Lots of posts from me in regards to high RPMs and which oil to use...I apologize. Perhaps I'm overthinking this...2 tacomas...a 3.5 and a 2.7...both 2019s...both spec 0w20 but allow for a heavier grade for high speed driving.
With my travels, both average about 3-3500 RPMs. Any reason to think the recommended 0w20s won't handle it? Will a 30 or maybe a 40 do it better? Both must make a 10k oci. Toyota does make an amendment to run a heavier grade. I can't find any UOAs with my usage to point me in the correct direction.
5000rpm uphill for 15 min == 0w40 for me automatically. Your trucks' redline isn't much higher than 5k rpm, so you are at the condition that Toyota says should use 40 grade.
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
why does Toyota make the caveat of high speed driving requiring a heavier grade?
.
That is a question worth asking --- and answering. The latter being the hard part! Especially so, since a couple years back, Toyota back-speced a bunch of their former 30wt engines to allow use of 20wt too. It's a vague, nebulous situation, since they say, in essence, we can go either way, but then give little specific info [as, edit] to which is best WHEN! 🤯
As for the topic in general, 10-15 years ago, I was much more concerned. As a former 20wt doubter, I now acknowledge that our roadsides and junkyards simply ARE NOT littered with the hulks of Hondas and Fords whose designers started specifying 20wt TWENTY YEARS AGO!
Of course, there are plenty of applications that properly require heavier oil, especially those designed to use such. Those who own cars specifying or allowing 20wt should use it without concern.
why does Toyota make the caveat of high speed driving requiring a heavier grade?
.
That is a question worth asking --- and answering. The latter being the hard part! Especially so, since a couple years back, Toyota back-speced a bunch of their former 30wt engines to allow use of 20wt too. It's a vague, nebulous situation, since they say, in essence, we can go either way, but then give little specific info [as, edit] to which is best WHEN! 🤯
As for the topic in general, 10-15 years ago, I was much more concerned. As a former 20wt doubter, I now acknowledge that our roadsides and junkyards simply ARE NOT littered with the hulks of Hondas and Fords whose designers started specifying 20wt TWENTY YEARS AGO!
Of course, there are plenty of applications that properly require heavier oil, especially those designed to use such. Those who own cars specifying or allowing 20wt should use it without concern.
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Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
why does Toyota make the caveat of high speed driving requiring a heavier grade?
.
That is a question worth asking --- and answering. The latter being the hard part! Especially so, since a couple years back, Toyota back-speced a bunch of their former 30wt engines to allow use of 20wt too. It's a vague, nebulous situation, since they say, in essence, we can go either way, but then give little specific info add to which is best WHEN! 🤯
As for the topic in general, 10-15 years ago, I was much more concerned. As a former 20wt doubter, I now acknowledge that our roadsides and junkyards simply ARE NOT littered with the hulks of Hondas and Fords whose designers started specifying 20wt TWENTY YEARS AGO!
Of course, there are plenty of applications that properly require heavier oil, especially those designed to use such. Those who own cars specifying or allowing 20wt should use it without concern.
Excellent comment.
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
why does Toyota make the caveat of high speed driving requiring a heavier grade?
.
That is a question worth asking --- and answering. The latter being the hard part! Especially so, since a couple years back, Toyota back-speced a bunch of their former 30wt engines to allow use of 20wt too. It's a vague, nebulous situation, since they say, in essence, we can go either way, but then give little specific info add to which is best WHEN! 🤯
As for the topic in general, 10-15 years ago, I was much more concerned. As a former 20wt doubter, I now acknowledge that our roadsides and junkyards simply ARE NOT littered with the hulks of Hondas and Fords whose designers started specifying 20wt TWENTY YEARS AGO!
Of course, there are plenty of applications that properly require heavier oil, especially those designed to use such. Those who own cars specifying or allowing 20wt should use it without concern.
Excellent comment.
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Originally Posted by umungus1122
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
why does Toyota make the caveat of high speed driving requiring a heavier grade?
Toyota is referring to racing or Autobahn-like driving. In other words continuously flooring it or pushing the engine as hard as it will go.
It's the only way I drive!
Originally Posted by marc1
We have a road in my neck of the woods called the Coquihalla, it is a high speed (120 kph -> 75 MPH) mountainous road
pfft, 120kph on a day when the snow plows are out!
Average speed in that area is around 130-140ish.
Summer speeds are easily around the 140-160 area with nary a cop to be seen for miles.
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
why does Toyota make the caveat of high speed driving requiring a heavier grade?
Toyota is referring to racing or Autobahn-like driving. In other words continuously flooring it or pushing the engine as hard as it will go.
It's the only way I drive!
Originally Posted by marc1
We have a road in my neck of the woods called the Coquihalla, it is a high speed (120 kph -> 75 MPH) mountainous road
pfft, 120kph on a day when the snow plows are out!
Average speed in that area is around 130-140ish.
Summer speeds are easily around the 140-160 area with nary a cop to be seen for miles.
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Without knowing the oil tempatures what may or may not happen with CAFE does not matter.
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Without knowing the oil tempatures what may or may not happen with CAFE does not matter.
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Simple toyota business decision: the additional warranty cost of specifying 0w20 vs. the cost of the EPA fines for 5w30 spec. Vast majority of Toyota's in the US never ever run close to redline rpm, not even for a fraction of a second much less sustained operation.
Simple owner decision: do you drive the car like the vast majority? Or are you one of the drivers to whom even Toyota manual is saying thicker grade? Do you care about a tiny increase in fuel economy? Or do you care about good protection of your engine?
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Simple toyota business decision: the additional warranty cost of specifying 0w20 vs. the cost of the EPA fines for 5w30 spec. Vast majority of Toyota's in the US never ever run close to redline rpm, not even for a fraction of a second much less sustained operation.
Simple owner decision: do you drive the car like the vast majority? Or are you one of the drivers to whom even Toyota manual is saying thicker grade? Do you care about a tiny increase in fuel economy? Or do you care about good protection of your engine?
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Simple toyota business decision: the additional warranty cost of specifying 0w20 vs. the cost of the EPA fines for 5w30 spec. Vast majority of Toyota's in the US never ever run close to redline rpm, not even for a fraction of a second much less sustained operation.
Simple owner decision: do you drive the car like the vast majority? Or are you one of the drivers to whom even Toyota manual is saying thicker grade? Do you care about a tiny increase in fuel economy? Or do you care about good protection of your engine?
It sounds like a lot of speculation and opinion rather than facts backed by references.
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Simple toyota business decision: the additional warranty cost of specifying 0w20 vs. the cost of the EPA fines for 5w30 spec. Vast majority of Toyota's in the US never ever run close to redline rpm, not even for a fraction of a second much less sustained operation.
Simple owner decision: do you drive the car like the vast majority? Or are you one of the drivers to whom even Toyota manual is saying thicker grade? Do you care about a tiny increase in fuel economy? Or do you care about good protection of your engine?
It sounds like a lot of speculation and opinion rather than facts backed by references.
This- as an owner Toyota gives you the ability to choose. An informed owner can decide what is best for his or her vehicle and use.
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Simple toyota business decision: the additional warranty cost of specifying 0w20 vs. the cost of the EPA fines for 5w30 spec. Vast majority of Toyota's in the US never ever run close to redline rpm, not even for a fraction of a second much less sustained operation.
Simple owner decision: do you drive the car like the vast majority? Or are you one of the drivers to whom even Toyota manual is saying thicker grade? Do you care about a tiny increase in fuel economy? Or do you care about good protection of your engine?
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Simple toyota business decision: the additional warranty cost of specifying 0w20 vs. the cost of the EPA fines for 5w30 spec. Vast majority of Toyota's in the US never ever run close to redline rpm, not even for a fraction of a second much less sustained operation.
Simple owner decision: do you drive the car like the vast majority? Or are you one of the drivers to whom even Toyota manual is saying thicker grade? Do you care about a tiny increase in fuel economy? Or do you care about good protection of your engine?
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Lots of good advice so far … let not your heart be troubled … when the 2021 models come out with 0w16 you're going to feel better …
My 5.3L's are both on 0w20 and make pretty good power … but the 6 speeds spread the RPM's better than my old 4 speeds did …
My 5.3L's are both on 0w20 and make pretty good power … but the 6 speeds spread the RPM's better than my old 4 speeds did …
If you're worried about it, toss in some xW-30. (HTHS of 3.0)
And if you're REALLY worried
, go for a 'Euro' blend xW-30. Look for an A3/B4 rating, which guarantees an HTHS of 3.5 or higher.
Running a slightly thicker oil will not hurt anything, and may actually reduce wear on those rare occasions when the oil film is living dangerously.
And if you're REALLY worried
Running a slightly thicker oil will not hurt anything, and may actually reduce wear on those rare occasions when the oil film is living dangerously.
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Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by burla
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
I wonder how much the epa gives toyota for back specking 20 weight? Hopefully nobody is daft enough to think our gov't isn't paying off auto manu's for fuel economy. Why do you think VW cheated emissions, lol. Now, the promise to be all electric within 8 years, lol. Yeah, manu's are playing the gov't game because IT PAYS THEM.
Originally Posted by PimTac
It sounds like a lot of speculation and opinion rather than facts backed by references.
So true. I don't believe that the differences between grades are meaningless. But it amazes me to come back to the board after several years away, and find people still freaking out about using 20 wt oils in passenger car applications (even fairly stressed ones). Back in the very late 90s and early 00s, when the 20s were new on the American scene, there was one guy who insisted 20 wt was nothing more than a honing or machining oil, useless, even dangerous, as motor oil. He was not alone. Apparently, he still has plenty of company. He, and many others confidently declared (or clearly implied) that within a couple years, we'd start seeing large numbers of premature engine wear-outs as a result of this vile engine poison...
Well, here's a fact, no speculation required, nor is any consideration of the car makers' motives. Best of all, we can all back it up with our eyeballs: twenty years after Ford and Honda started specifying 20 wt oils, we are simply not seeing the roadsides and junkyards being filled with hulks of cars whose engines have been destroyed by 20 wt oil. Not two, not five, TWENTY years.
I was initially cautious about 20 wt oils, but didn't get too worked up, since at the time, I owned no 20 wt cars. Now I do. Today, I have a small number of things I occasionally lose sleep over. Using 0w-20 in my car is NOT one of them... ...Ž
It sounds like a lot of speculation and opinion rather than facts backed by references.
So true. I don't believe that the differences between grades are meaningless. But it amazes me to come back to the board after several years away, and find people still freaking out about using 20 wt oils in passenger car applications (even fairly stressed ones). Back in the very late 90s and early 00s, when the 20s were new on the American scene, there was one guy who insisted 20 wt was nothing more than a honing or machining oil, useless, even dangerous, as motor oil. He was not alone. Apparently, he still has plenty of company. He, and many others confidently declared (or clearly implied) that within a couple years, we'd start seeing large numbers of premature engine wear-outs as a result of this vile engine poison...
Well, here's a fact, no speculation required, nor is any consideration of the car makers' motives. Best of all, we can all back it up with our eyeballs: twenty years after Ford and Honda started specifying 20 wt oils, we are simply not seeing the roadsides and junkyards being filled with hulks of cars whose engines have been destroyed by 20 wt oil. Not two, not five, TWENTY years.
I was initially cautious about 20 wt oils, but didn't get too worked up, since at the time, I owned no 20 wt cars. Now I do. Today, I have a small number of things I occasionally lose sleep over. Using 0w-20 in my car is NOT one of them... ...Ž
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Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by PimTac
It sounds like a lot of speculation and opinion rather than facts backed by references.
So true. I don't believe that the differences between grades are meaningless. But it amazes me to come back to the board after several years away, and find people still freaking out about using 20 wt oils in passenger car applications (even fairly stressed ones). Back in the very late 90s and early 00s, when the 20s were new on the American scene, there was one guy who insisted 20 wt was nothing more than a honing or machining oil, useless, even dangerous, as motor oil. He was not alone. Apparently, he still has plenty of company. He, and many others confidently declared (or clearly implied) that within a couple years, we'd start seeing large numbers of premature engine wear-outs as a result of this vile engine poison...
Well, here's a fact, no speculation required, nor is any consideration of the car makers' motives. Best of all, we can all back it up with our eyeballs: twenty years after Ford and Honda started specifying 20 wt oils, we are simply not seeing the roadsides and junkyards being filled with hulks of cars whose engines have been destroyed by 20 wt oil. Not two, not five, TWENTY years.
I was initially cautious about 20 wt oils, but didn't get too worked up, since at the time, I owned no 20 wt cars. Now I do. Today, I have a small number of things I occasionally lose sleep over. Using 0w-20 in my car is NOT one of them... ...Ž
I totally agree. I'm old enough to have used SAE 30wt Havoline when it was made by Texaco and over the years went from that to 10w40 to 5w30. Now I run 0w20 in the Mazda. The engine is quiet and smooth.
There is a lot of fear by those who don't understand. Oils have really improved as have engines.
Originally Posted by PimTac
It sounds like a lot of speculation and opinion rather than facts backed by references.
So true. I don't believe that the differences between grades are meaningless. But it amazes me to come back to the board after several years away, and find people still freaking out about using 20 wt oils in passenger car applications (even fairly stressed ones). Back in the very late 90s and early 00s, when the 20s were new on the American scene, there was one guy who insisted 20 wt was nothing more than a honing or machining oil, useless, even dangerous, as motor oil. He was not alone. Apparently, he still has plenty of company. He, and many others confidently declared (or clearly implied) that within a couple years, we'd start seeing large numbers of premature engine wear-outs as a result of this vile engine poison...
Well, here's a fact, no speculation required, nor is any consideration of the car makers' motives. Best of all, we can all back it up with our eyeballs: twenty years after Ford and Honda started specifying 20 wt oils, we are simply not seeing the roadsides and junkyards being filled with hulks of cars whose engines have been destroyed by 20 wt oil. Not two, not five, TWENTY years.
I was initially cautious about 20 wt oils, but didn't get too worked up, since at the time, I owned no 20 wt cars. Now I do. Today, I have a small number of things I occasionally lose sleep over. Using 0w-20 in my car is NOT one of them... ...Ž
I totally agree. I'm old enough to have used SAE 30wt Havoline when it was made by Texaco and over the years went from that to 10w40 to 5w30. Now I run 0w20 in the Mazda. The engine is quiet and smooth.
There is a lot of fear by those who don't understand. Oils have really improved as have engines.
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