Brief GM rant

[Diesel_Clatter]

Originally Posted By: XS650
How did you handle that one?


Madam, it seems you have a five sigma rear whilst our seats were, sadly, only designed out to three sigma capacity?

 

[globey]

Honestly, you tell the customer the truth. Tell her [censored] was so big that she wasn't actually touching the seats and the sensors couldn't recognize a person sitting in the seat.

The truth hurts.

 

[Bror Jace]

Wow, I'd hate to be that seat.

 

[bretfraz]

If she was that heavy, would she actually want the air bags to deploy?

What do you do? You tell her the truth as you know it, the air bag sensor works fine and is not a defect or problem. End of story. Let the customer deal with her other issues.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: bretfraz

Just like I'm aware that speeding, not wearing your seat belt or driving with expired tags are also against the law.


The difference is that those are not felony offenses.

Quote:

I hope you didn't miss the point of my original post.


That getting paid $9 an hour under the table with no payroll taxes (FICA, state/federal income taxwithholding) is good money? Was that your point?

 

[brianl703]

Based on the calculators I looked at, $9/hour under the table is about the same as $12/hour at a legitimate job. No, wait..it's more than that, I didn't take into account the employer's contribution to FICA. Let's see, that's an additional $36.78 per 40-hour week period so a $9/hour under-the-table job pays about as much as a $13/hour legitimate job. (The employer tells you you're making $12/hour, but due to FICA contributions, he's really paying $13/hour).

I guess we should all start working under the table. It'd be an immediate $4/hour raise.

 

[bretfraz]

Originally Posted By: brianl703

Quote:

I hope you didn't miss the point of my original post.


That getting paid $9 an hour under the table with no payroll taxes (FICA, state/federal income taxwithholding) is good money? Was that your point?


At the risk of repeating myself.....

Quote:
I would hope a factory worker at Honda is eligible for some nice benefits because in my world, $11.50 is above Taco Bell and below an unskilled ditch digger.

 

[brianl703]

Since day laborers can make the equivalent of $13/hour, I would agree that Honda should probably be paying a bit more than that.

 

[firemachine69]

As pointed out, the bloat here is management, particularly the upper echelon.

GM/Ford/Chrysler could put their minds into making a competitive car to the Fit and Yaris, but the upper bean counters are after ultimate dollar, not quality, and they absolutely fail to realize, even after all these years, that particular attitude is exactly why many of us have gone 'import'. Oh, I still love and have my Sunfire, but I needed a reliable form of transportation that was super-economical. GM thought Daewoo could help them, instead of moving their funding into the truck plant they just closed down. Once again, GM disappoints.

GM could have a fair shot at the market with a homegrown solution, as the imports are now battling shipping fees and tariffs to assemble their cars. They have two ways to go, either they let up slightly on the quality line, or up the price on their line-up. Have a stab at which one they will try.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
As pointed out, the bloat here is management, particularly the upper echelon.

GM/Ford/Chrysler could put their minds into making a competitive car to the Fit and Yaris, but the upper bean counters are after ultimate dollar, not quality, and they absolutely fail to realize, even after all these years, that particular attitude is exactly why many of us have gone 'import'. Oh, I still love and have my Sunfire, but I needed a reliable form of transportation that was super-economical. GM thought Daewoo could help them, instead of moving their funding into the truck plant they just closed down. Once again, GM disappoints.

GM could have a fair shot at the market with a homegrown solution, as the imports are now battling shipping fees and tariffs to assemble their cars. They have two ways to go, either they let up slightly on the quality line, or up the price on their line-up. Have a stab at which one they will try.


I think you have missed everything Ford has done since they hired a new CEO. I'm guessing those comments might apply to GM/Chrysler but Ford has been targeting quality and reliability first and foremost for the last few years. To say otherwise is a sign bias and poor judgement.

 

[globey]

I agree...I love my 2 year old Ford Fusion and I will seriously consider the new Ford Fiesta when it is introduced as a second vehicle.

 

[MrCritical]

Later model Fusion is really getting some good press these days. I'll bet Ford can sell all they make with fuel prices what they are.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
We are on the road to third worldom where all the little people don't make much money, all the medium people don't make much money then only the absolute top make the money ,those who can vote to raise their pay.


Judging by the parade I went to on Sunday in NYC I'd say we are already there.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
As pointed out, the bloat here is management, particularly the upper echelon.

GM/Ford/Chrysler could put their minds into making a competitive car to the Fit and Yaris, but the upper bean counters are after ultimate dollar, not quality, and they absolutely fail to realize, even after all these years, that particular attitude is exactly why many of us have gone 'import'. Oh, I still love and have my Sunfire, but I needed a reliable form of transportation that was super-economical. GM thought Daewoo could help them, instead of moving their funding into the truck plant they just closed down. Once again, GM disappoints.

GM could have a fair shot at the market with a homegrown solution, as the imports are now battling shipping fees and tariffs to assemble their cars. They have two ways to go, either they let up slightly on the quality line, or up the price on their line-up. Have a stab at which one they will try.


I think you have missed everything Ford has done since they hired a new CEO. I'm guessing those comments might apply to GM/Chrysler but Ford has been targeting quality and reliability first and foremost for the last few years. To say otherwise is a sign bias and poor judgement.


Very well put sir and extremely accurate.

 

[firemachine69]

Ford still has alot of the bloat, their new CEO represents, what, 1% of total management?

They would have started trimming back their truck line-up years ago if they had anything in the noggin'. Any half-arse manager knows better than to put all their eggs in one basket.


Again, the Focus still carries alot of the bloat from the past. It weighs alot for it's class, has many useless features, and is priced in a territory making it non-competitive. Notice how well the Yaris sells? Barebones, only the options you want, and excellent fuel economy and expected reliability. I wouldn't care if it had a Yugo badge on it, it's what I (and many others) are after.

I can't for my life remember the last time Ford offered a micro-compact around 2400lbs.

And yes, based on the statistics of CR (the only part I still pay attention), I'll take a Ford Fusion over a Camry any day of the week.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Ford still has alot of the bloat, their new CEO represents, what, 1% of total management?

They would have started trimming back their truck line-up years ago if they had anything in the noggin'. Any half-arse manager knows better than to put all their eggs in one basket.


Again, the Focus still carries alot of the bloat from the past. It weighs alot for it's class, has many useless features, and is priced in a territory making it non-competitive. Notice how well the Yaris sells? Barebones, only the options you want, and excellent fuel economy and expected reliability. I wouldn't care if it had a Yugo badge on it, it's what I (and many others) are after.

I can't for my life remember the last time Ford offered a micro-compact around 2400lbs.

And yes, based on the statistics of CR (the only part I still pay attention), I'll take a Ford Fusion over a Camry any day of the week.


Don't you remember the Festiva????? They must have sold like hotcakes in Quebec, that's all I ever see when I drive through there in the winter.

I've been trying to find one cheap and a buddy and I want to put a 302HO in it

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Ford still has alot of the bloat, their new CEO represents, what, 1% of total management?

They would have started trimming back their truck line-up years ago if they had anything in the noggin'. Any half-arse manager knows better than to put all their eggs in one basket.


Again, the Focus still carries alot of the bloat from the past. It weighs alot for it's class, has many useless features, and is priced in a territory making it non-competitive. Notice how well the Yaris sells? Barebones, only the options you want, and excellent fuel economy and expected reliability. I wouldn't care if it had a Yugo badge on it, it's what I (and many others) are after.

I can't for my life remember the last time Ford offered a micro-compact around 2400lbs.

And yes, based on the statistics of CR (the only part I still pay attention), I'll take a Ford Fusion over a Camry any day of the week.


The focus isn't supposed to compete with the yaris. It is priced lowest in its class (civic, corolla, etc.) and gets as good of gas mileage as any other car in its class. Who cares about the weight? I think you are just complaining to be complaining. The quality and reliability reports have been good. What is there to complain about at this point? Sales have been better than expected, too.

Ford recently released plans for their upcoming micro-compact or whatever it is that will be competing in the yaris type market. I think you need pay attention a bit more.

 

[firemachine69]

Perhaps for you folks - but I checked out a similarly-equipped Focus, and barring the mediocre in-town gas mileage, they were asking over 19K - taxes excluded.

My point still stands that Ford does not have a true competitor for the Yaris, as should have occured over three years ago. Their 'the Focus is close enough' attitude and caulous disregard for market demand, although seemingly on paper, easy to please, turns out to be quite a niche marketplace.


I will say, that I much prefer the new look over the previous generation.

 

[Bror Jace]

I was trying to avoid this, but I probably should put into words my view of GM and the American auto industry in general.

Since the end of WWII, the industry has been run by older men whos’ idea of the ultimate car was a large, soft family sedan with lots of sheet metal and chrome.

The idea that some people would want something smaller, lighter, less expensive and/or fun to drive was foreign to them … so those people often bought foreign cars. This started (mostly) with Volkswagons … then proceeded to German luxury cars as well as Japanese economy (then luxury) cars.

Everyone wants a big car, right? Heavy with lots of chrome so they can take their family with comfort for long drives on the interstates? Obviously not.

Sports cars? The big 3 barely recognize the fact they existed. Economy cars? They ended up being slightly scaled down versions of the mainstay behemoths.

It was as conservative a corporate culture as could be. Even muscle cars were considered ‘out there’ and many top execs hated them and what they stood for.

When the gas crunch of the 70s hit, and a Nova or Mustang with a 250cid 6-cylinder was simply not enough of an economy car, they rushed a number of small cars into production: The Vega, Pinto, Pacer and the like. Problem is these were built by people who didn’t understand small cars and their heart simply wasn’t in it. They were engineered like their larger brethren … but on a smaller scale. They were GARBAGE that just didn’t work. They sold well enough … because the public didn’t know any better.

And when gas stayed (relatively) expensive and emissions controls were tightened, the big 3 realized they had to re-engineer their big behemoths, too. Problem is, they seem to take the ideas that didn’t work in their small cars and apply them to their larger, more expensive cars as well. These were the lackluster cars of the 80s.

It was only during the 90s when people wanted better quality (and often smaller) cars did the US mfrs begin to catch on.
However, I think the days of real denial are over. Most, if not all of the company execs know what they have to do … but righting the ship takes a long time and they have many pieces to reform.. I’m hoping that they can still turn the ship around. I think they have a chance, we’ll see …

The high Union costs and bloated management (not sure which one is worse) just exacerbates the existing problem ... they weren’t making cars an increasing number of people wanted.

 

[globey]

Originally Posted By: badtlc


Ford recently released plans for their upcoming micro-compact or whatever it is that will be competing in the yaris type market. I think you need pay attention a bit more.


Yes, the Ford Fiesta

They are selling this globally. Same name, same basic car with only a few different engine options. I really like their idea here. I think this will be a hit.