Brief GM rant

[globey]

Originally Posted By: badltc
For the millionth time. Modern emission standards and increased weight from more stringent safety standards make it impossible. Do you want to be save w/ less emissions or do you want to get 45mpg? Which side do you make happy? Is it worth someone dying?



Originally Posted By: XS650

You are hung up on the label stuck on the car. The model name on the side of the car doesn't define the car that it is.

A new Civic has nothing to do with the Civic of 15 years ago. A new Civic is much more comparable to an Accord of 15 years ago.

To that, add the new tougher gas mileage rating system and people's selective memories.


Exactly...the Civic is more like the Accord to fit the larger American public. Let's selectively forget that it's a fact that the size of the cars have gotten bigger not solely because of the safety concerns but also because the general public is much larger (as in obese), as a whole, than it was 15 years ago.

More safe and efficient cars can be made but we've grown accustomed to all the bells and whistles. No one wants economy...they want the DVD players and all the other gadgets. Added weight due to bigger seats and more comfort items have helped lead to a decrease in efficiency.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
I check back in and see this thread is going nowhere again.

"Internal documents from Toyota say their hourly workers are next."

So you're someone who works at Toyota and has access to these documents? Bullsheet.

"Honda can't be far behind."

I really doubt it since Honda sales are UP for the year.

The non-domestic companies pay market value for an unskilled factory worker. Not some overinflated union wage that ultimately ends up breaking the companies back.

"GM needs to go the wayback machine and dust off the Geo Metro."

Sure. Bring back an econobox piece of plastic design that dates to the late 80's. Great idea. Meanwhile Honda and Toyota continue to design fuel efficient cars that people actually want to drive. People are sheep. Anyone who spends 7K on a used Metro is an idiot.

"Building cars in the US with Japanese parts."

No. Most of the parts are sourced from the USA and Canada. A few of the parts like transmissions still come from Japan.

"Yes, it makes patriotic people feel less like they are betraying their country by "selling out to Asia" when the car is ASSEMBLED by non-Union American workers, forgetting all the profit goes overseas anyways."

So you would rather that these companies assemble all their cars in Japan and not provide American workers with steady jobs? The profit going overseas argument is [censored]. By having factories in America, they pay taxes and salaries, all of which remain in the US. Unlike most US companies, the Japanese automakers have increased the number of US workers in the last 20 years. They're some of the few companies who haven't shipped all the jobs out of the US.

It doesn't make a [censored] of difference if a worker is a union member when THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB ANYMORE.







And the parent company is still based in Japan. The PROFIT goes overseas, they obviously have expenses associated with operating in the US, but last time I checked, the profit was what was left over after all the expenses were paid.

And of course the profit in USD has some handsome returns when converted to the Yen.

They created jobs because they are assembling more cars; if the trade tariffs were still in place and the market for small cars didn't become the cut-throat operating for domestic auto manufacturers that it has, plants would not have been made in Mexico and those jobs would have gone to US workers. This can be spun any way you want it to be.

We do NOT have equal trade with Japan and China; they can peddle their wares on our shores free of charge, whilst heavy tariffs are imposed upon products imported from North America.

This is a scenario of OUR doing, Asia is simply taking advantage of it.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: globey


Exactly...the Civic is more like the Accord to fit the larger American public. Let's selectively forget that it's a fact that the size of the cars have gotten bigger not solely because of the safety concerns but also because the general public is much larger (as in obese), as a whole, than it was 15 years ago.


Human lard can efficiently be made into bio-diesel. We can solve two problems at once.

 

[globey]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: globey


Exactly...the Civic is more like the Accord to fit the larger American public. Let's selectively forget that it's a fact that the size of the cars have gotten bigger not solely because of the safety concerns but also because the general public is much larger (as in obese), as a whole, than it was 15 years ago.


Human lard can efficiently be made into bio-diesel. We can solve two problems at once.


LOL. I agree.

I will say that I'm looking forward to the new Ford Fiesta. It's rumored to be around 40 mpg and it looks pretty sporty. If Ford plays their cards right here, they could have a winner. I like how they are trying to market globally instead of regionally with this vehicle.

 

[AcuraTech]

Honestly I'm not trying to [censored] on anyones head here, just trying to have an honest debate.

The bottom line is GM is closing factories. That stinks. Hopefully the domestics can start coming out with some fuel efficient cars that people want to buy. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler can make a comeback, I'm all for it.

The problem is that peoples perceptions have shifted. A lot of people that only bought domestic cars for a long time are driving Toyotas now. It's gonna take awhile to get peoples loyalty back.

 

[RacerE7773]

I don't know what I'll do when the Impala is paid off in a couple years; trade the Cav in on a v6 Fusion or v6 G6 or a v6 Avenger. I know one thing if I do get another 4 cylinder I'd want it to be the only available engine. I'd be kicking myself for buying the 4 cylinder when a v6 is available. Plus I'll check out the mileage of the v6s. Hopefully they're a bit better than the mileage we are "getting" in the Impala. I want to get the car tuned up this fall.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: bretfraz

I have hired undocumented workers as day laborers at $8.00 - 9.00 an hour. I pay cash, provide transportation and tools.


You are aware that is against the law, aren't you? It's not the sort of thing I'd admit to doing--if I did it--which I don't.

 

[globey]

Originally Posted By: RacerE7773
I don't know what I'll do when the Impala is paid off in a couple years; trade the Cav in on a v6 Fusion or v6 G6 or a v6 Avenger.


I have an I4 manual Fusion and I love it. I've had it almost two years and it's been a great car so far.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
"Building cars in the US with Japanese parts."

No. Most of the parts are sourced from the USA and Canada. A few of the parts like transmissions still come from Japan.
the Japanese automakers have increased the number of US workers in the last 20 years.

Read the window stickers on a new Hyundai built in Alabama, I believe the parts content is on the order of 60%/40%, foreign/domestic, at best.

True, some of the Asians companies have built plants in the U.S., and if we had intelligent trade policies they would build a lot more to maintain access to our markets.

Nevertheless, the total foreign auto U.S. employment,(about 150,000), is still a small fraction of what the big three employ.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: globey
Who cares if they are better designs. The want right now for the public is fuel efficiency. Explain to me why the Honda Civic gets much less fuel efficiency than they did just 15 years ago. These designs might be more stylish, but don't confuse that with fuel efficiency. People talk about the Prius and it's 40+ mpg, but the 90's model Civic was getting that and it wasn't a hybrid.


For the millionth time. Modern emission standards and increased weight from more stringent safety standards make it impossible. Do you want to be save w/ less emissions or do you want to get 45mpg? Which side do you make happy? Is it worth someone dying?


Yeah, it was called the SUV. they had to make econoboxes more safer due to the mass of these SUVs. So they got bigger plus people are obese too.

 

[bretfraz]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: bretfraz

I have hired undocumented workers as day laborers at $8.00 - 9.00 an hour. I pay cash, provide transportation and tools.


You are aware that is against the law, aren't you? It's not the sort of thing I'd admit to doing--if I did it--which I don't.



Yes, I'm well aware of it. Just like I'm aware that speeding, not wearing your seat belt or driving with expired tags are also against the law.

I hope you didn't miss the point of my original post.

 

[Kestas]

The calculated domestic content of any car is nebulous at best. How far back do they go to make this calculation? For example, a transmission can be assembled in America from all foreign parts. When it's presented to the manufacturer for assembly, it's considered "Made in America".

How far back do they go?... where the finished unit is assembled?... where a component is machined?... forged?... the mill?

For example, our company makes a bearing for sale in the USA that is machined and assembled in Brazil. It is sourced from Korea where it is forged and heat treated. The steel comes from Japan. So tell me, is the bearing Brazilian, Korean, Japanese, or American? Or is it Swedish, because our parent company is from Sweden? (The bearing is stamped "Made in Brazil")

I doubt that domestic content is calculated with that level of precision.

 

[Bror Jace]

"I know one thing if I do get another 4 cylinder I'd want it to be the only available engine. I'd be kicking myself for buying the 4 cylinder when a v6 is available."

No offense, but this kind of thinking is killing us. Ask people why they got the biggest engine available for the vehicle they drive and about half will pause and say "I dunno."

It's intelligent decisions like this that are costing us millions of barrels of oil per day. That and women who aren't happy unless they've had their car idling 15+ minutes per day.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
"I know one thing if I do get another 4 cylinder I'd want it to be the only available engine. I'd be kicking myself for buying the 4 cylinder when a v6 is available."

No offense, but this kind of thinking is killing us. Ask people why they got the biggest engine available for the vehicle they drive and about half will pause and say "I dunno."

It's intelligent decisions like this that are costing us millions of barrels of oil per day. That and women who aren't happy unless they've had their car idling 15+ minutes per day.

It's the speculators driving the prices up, not oil consumption.

Those of us living in Canada, EXPORTING all our bloody oil, are paying almost a dollar more a gallon than you guys are. Do you want to argue that we are using more oil? Because that's impossible given the rift in population.

 

[artificialist]

Plenty of people are being laid off because new machinery gets the job done cheaper and faster. Half the problem US builders face is that they can't easily lay off workers, and are stuck with the slower, more expensive process.

Seems pretty dumb to me, ever since the Model T, new inventions of replacing manpower have been driving down car costs.

GM should have known that before signing some tough contracts.

 

[globey]

OVERKILL, that may be true, but we can send a message to suppliers and those producing the oil. Imagine if the world's #1 user of oil cuts usage dramatically.

That being said, I still see bunches of fat people letting their car idle in the drive thru waiting for McDonald's or Burger King each day. It takes less time to shut the car off and go inside, yet they continue to waste.

An old lady pulled up to Auto Zone the other day in an F-350 dually that weighed over 10K pounds. It had all the external bells and whistles. Did that old lady really need to be driving that beast around?

It's this type of thing that is hurting those of us that like to conserve. See, they don't care because their excuse is "Well I'm paying for it, so I can use it like I wish". While they are paying for it, they are also contributing to usage, which contributes to increased demand, which contributes to higher prices.

Everyone needs to make a concerted effort to do the little things to stop consumption. Things like going inside at a fast food restaurant would save MILLIONS of barrels each year.

 

[MrCritical]

Speaking of drivers and passengers getting larger-we sold a G6 convertible to a couple who left the dealership and came right back saying the passenger air bag "off" light was on when she was sitting in the pass frt seat.

Looking at the record of the tech who inspected the car when it came off the transport, I saw he was our most reliable and thorough tech.

So I got the tech and we drove the customer's car with me sitting in the pass frt seat with a scan tool plugged in.

Nothing. The system was working fine.

He got me out and put the customer in the passenger front seat and went for a ride.

The problem? The new owner was so wide, she was putting all her weight on the side bolsters of the seat, thereby fooling the sensor in the seat bottom into believing the seat was empty, thereby turning on the "passenger air bag off" warning.

What do you do?

 

[XS650]

How did you handle that one?

 

[rationull]

Ouch. I wanna know how that one ended too I can't imagine the seat was comfortable for a passenger in that, um, condition.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: XS650
How did you handle that one?


Give her a token for a free month at Jenny Craig? That's disgusting.