Brief GM rant

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: wapacz
This is do both to management that underfunded the retirement funds when they couldn't hide profits there and the union that went after getting so much when the times where good.


... and the management that caved to union demands. Can't really lambast the unions for achieving success...

 

[wapacz]

And if they didn't cave they would have a strike.

Really both side had a hand in this.

 

[drivewaytech]

A couple of years or so ago, I applied at a Honda plant that was built near where I live. The plant was built to make transmissions. I was excited with the possibility of making between $20 and $30 dollars an hour, which is darn good money in this area for someone without a college degree. They started out at $11.50 per hour for all positions. I did not take the job, but last I checked there are no positions available. Those employees will get wage increases based on performance and will most likely not have to face plant closing or layoffs. Now that is smart management. Kind of wish I had endured the pay cut and worked my way up the latter there. In the long run it would have probably been a wiser decision. By the way, the GM plant had just begun the process of shutting down at the time. I overheard a group of ex or then present auto workers (maybe GM) expressing what a joke the starting wage was at Honda. Wonder what those group of guys are doing now.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
A couple of years or so ago, I applied at a Honda plant that was built near where I live. The plant was built to make transmissions. I was excited with the possibility of making between $20 and $30 dollars an hour, which is darn good money in this area for someone without a college degree. They started out at $11.50 per hour for all positions. I did not take the job, but last I checked there are no positions available. Those employees will get wage increases based on performance and will most likely not have to face plant closing or layoffs. Now that is smart management. Kind of wish I had endured the pay cut and worked my way up the latter there. In the long run it would have probably been a wiser decision. By the way, the GM plant had just begun the process of shutting down at the time. I overheard a group of ex or then present auto workers (maybe GM) expressing what a joke the starting wage was at Honda. Wonder what those group of guys are doing now.


You essentially summed it up in a nutshell.

 

[bretfraz]

Originally Posted By: drivewaytech
A couple of years or so ago, I applied at a Honda plant that was built near where I live. The plant was built to make transmissions. I was excited with the possibility of making between $20 and $30 dollars an hour, which is darn good money in this area for someone without a college degree. They started out at $11.50 per hour for all positions. I did not take the job, but last I checked there are no positions available. Those employees will get wage increases based on performance and will most likely not have to face plant closing or layoffs. Now that is smart management. Kind of wish I had endured the pay cut and worked my way up the latter there. In the long run it would have probably been a wiser decision.


I agree that $20-30 an hour in a rural Southern town is excellent money. That's an annual salary of $40,000 - 60,000 per year.

Just to put $11.50 an hour into perspective - Around here (metro Atlanta), fast food joints pay about $6.00 an hour, a tad over the federal minimum wage of $5.85 an hour. Georgia has a state min. wage of $5.15 an hour, below the federal standard.

I have hired undocumented workers as day laborers at $8.00 - 9.00 an hour. I pay cash, provide transportation and tools.

My old job employed "site crew" personnel, basically a step above a day laborer. The low skilled guys made in the $10.00 - 12.00 range, while the more experience guys that could run a small crew and operate trackhoes and trenchers made $13.00 - 15.00 an hour. This is backbreaking work but we paid OT and took good care of the crews. Benefits are pretty slim, though as its a small family run business.

I would hope a factory worker at Honda is eligible for some nice benefits because in my world, $11.50 is above Taco Bell and below an unskilled ditch digger. One of the many reasons, I'm sure, they build auto plants in rural areas instead of near cities.

 

[mormit]

How can you all still be stuck on the starting wage of the guy at the plant when the idiots who, even if they are voted off the island by the shareholders, will still walk away from the the disaster the fathered with millions? It still come down to GM is not making a product that they can sell for a profit.

The price of gas has been clinbing for years and they now say it is hear to stay??

If you are all that slow, I have share in high risk mortages I'd like to sell you.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: mormit
How can you all still be stuck on the starting wage of the guy at the plant when the idiots who, even if they are voted off the island by the shareholders, will still walk away from the the disaster the fathered with millions? It still come down to GM is not making a product that they can sell for a profit.

The price of gas has been clinbing for years and they now say it is hear to stay??

If you are all that slow, I have share in high risk mortages I'd like to sell you.

 

[Steve S]

We are on the road to third worldom where all the little people don't make much money, all the medium people don't make much money then only the absolute top make the money ,those who can vote to raise their pay.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
We are on the road to third worldom where all the little people don't make much money, all the medium people don't make much money then only the absolute top make the money ,those who can vote to raise their pay.


It's the Golden Rule Steve. Those who have the gold make the rules.

 

[MrCritical]

So, GM basically forced retirement or buyout on a high percentage of it's hourly work force, and replaced them with new workers at half the wages.

Internal documents from Toyota say their hourly workers are next. Honda can't be far behind.

You think they'll pay their workers double the rate GM is for long?

 

[mormit]

Don't get me wrong. Anyone who builds a business or industry desrerves to be rewarded.

Anyone who takes the lead of an established American icon, then manages to loose market share when other companies manage to grow, does not.

 

[mormit]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical
So, GM basically forced retirement or buyout on a high percentage of it's hourly work force, and replaced them with new workers at half the wages.

Internal documents from Toyota say their hourly workers are next. Honda can't be far behind.

You think they'll pay their workers double the rate GM is for long?


You are still ignoring the fact the Honda and Yoda are making the cars people want. They are building their cars in the US. Sure I would rather they pay American workers the same. It comes down to GM does not offer the cars Honda and Toyota do. A Korean built economy car does not compete in my book with a US built Honda.

GM management is the real high cost, low value overhead that is killing them.

 

[globey]

GM needs to go back to the "way back" machine and dust off the Geo Metro plans and just produce that car AS-IS. I see lots of Geo's being dusted off and put back into circulation.

I've read how used Metros are selling for five or six times what they were selling for just one year ago. Crazy...

These cars would sell like fried Twinkies at a Jenny Craig meeting.

 

[globey]

Originally Posted By: mormit
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
So, GM basically forced retirement or buyout on a high percentage of it's hourly work force, and replaced them with new workers at half the wages.

Internal documents from Toyota say their hourly workers are next. Honda can't be far behind.

You think they'll pay their workers double the rate GM is for long?


You are still ignoring the fact the Honda and Yoda are making the cars people want. They are building their cars in the US. Sure I would rather they pay American workers the same.


Yes, building their cars in the U.S. with Japanese parts. The amount of Americans they put to work is still 1/20th of what Ford and Chevy do. It's all a ploy to get people to buy Japanese because "they are putting Americans to work!". Obviously, it's working.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: globey
Originally Posted By: mormit
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
So, GM basically forced retirement or buyout on a high percentage of it's hourly work force, and replaced them with new workers at half the wages.

Internal documents from Toyota say their hourly workers are next. Honda can't be far behind.

You think they'll pay their workers double the rate GM is for long?


You are still ignoring the fact the Honda and Yoda are making the cars people want. They are building their cars in the US. Sure I would rather they pay American workers the same.


Yes, building their cars in the U.S. with Japanese parts. The amount of Americans they put to work is still 1/20th of what Ford and Chevy do. It's all a ploy to get people to buy Japanese because "they are putting Americans to work!". Obviously, it's working.


Yes, it makes patriotic people feel less like they are betraying their country by "selling out to Asia" when the car is ASSEMBLED by non-Union American workers, forgetting all the profit goes overseas anyways.

 

[AcuraTech]

I check back in and see this thread is going nowhere again.

"Internal documents from Toyota say their hourly workers are next."

So you're someone who works at Toyota and has access to these documents? Bullsheet.

"Honda can't be far behind."

I really doubt it since Honda sales are UP for the year.

The non-domestic companies pay market value for an unskilled factory worker. Not some overinflated union wage that ultimately ends up breaking the companies back.

"GM needs to go the wayback machine and dust off the Geo Metro."

Sure. Bring back an econobox piece of plastic design that dates to the late 80's. Great idea. Meanwhile Honda and Toyota continue to design fuel efficient cars that people actually want to drive. People are sheep. Anyone who spends 7K on a used Metro is an idiot.

"Building cars in the US with Japanese parts."

No. Most of the parts are sourced from the USA and Canada. A few of the parts like transmissions still come from Japan.

"Yes, it makes patriotic people feel less like they are betraying their country by "selling out to Asia" when the car is ASSEMBLED by non-Union American workers, forgetting all the profit goes overseas anyways."

So you would rather that these companies assemble all their cars in Japan and not provide American workers with steady jobs? The profit going overseas argument is [censored]. By having factories in America, they pay taxes and salaries, all of which remain in the US. Unlike most US companies, the Japanese automakers have increased the number of US workers in the last 20 years. They're some of the few companies who haven't shipped all the jobs out of the US.

It doesn't make a [censored] of difference if a worker is a union member when THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB ANYMORE.

 

[globey]

Who cares if they are better designs. The want right now for the public is fuel efficiency. Explain to me why the Honda Civic gets much less fuel efficiency than they did just 15 years ago. These designs might be more stylish, but don't confuse that with fuel efficiency. People talk about the Prius and it's 40+ mpg, but the 90's model Civic was getting that and it wasn't a hybrid.

Outside of the Tundra and a few select Toyota models, most of the parts still come from Japan. I'd sure like to see where you data comes from. Still, I don't expect you change your mind with a username like "AcuraTech".

 

[MrCritical]

The documents were posted on autospies.com. And confirmed by Toyota.

If you think Honda is going to let a little thing like record sales keep them paying their workers double what the Americans are, you need to learn what real cutthroat economics are. The Japanese invented them.

Wake up and smell the sushi.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: globey
Who cares if they are better designs. The want right now for the public is fuel efficiency. Explain to me why the Honda Civic gets much less fuel efficiency than they did just 15 years ago. These designs might be more stylish, but don't confuse that with fuel efficiency. People talk about the Prius and it's 40+ mpg, but the 90's model Civic was getting that and it wasn't a hybrid.


For the millionth time. Modern emission standards and increased weight from more stringent safety standards make it impossible. Do you want to be save w/ less emissions or do you want to get 45mpg? Which side do you make happy? Is it worth someone dying?

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: globey
Who cares if they are better designs. The want right now for the public is fuel efficiency. Explain to me why the Honda Civic gets much less fuel efficiency than they did just 15 years ago.


You are hung up on the label stuck on the car. The model name on the side of the car doesn't define the car that it is.

A new Civic has nothing to do with the Civic of 15 years ago. A new Civic is much more comparable to an Accord of 15 years ago.

To that, add the new tougher gas mileage rating system and people's selective memories.