Bought some hpl 5w40

[Silver]

I think you missed the point and info in his post - buying oil from a company like HPL should alleviate the concerns w/r to approvals.

For those of us that don't have tea with the guy formulating and making the oil, we're going to stick with approvals.

 

[RooflessVW]

For those of us that don't have tea with the guy formulating and making the oil, we're going to stick with approvals.

You'll have to speak for yourself there. I'll always recommend an approved oil, but I'll use whatever is cheap.

 

[Silver]

You'll have to speak for yourself there. I'll always recommend an approved oil, but I'll use whatever is cheap.

Taken out of context. HPL isn't cheap and I agree!

 

[kschachn]

Seems like 508.00 has more stringent wear protection requirements than 502.00.

View attachment 115819

Yes which makes perfect sense. With an approval dictating an HT/HS of 2.6, wear protection is definitely more of an emphasis than for a 502 00 approved oil. It does not mean that the 508 00 oil produces less wear than the 502 00 oil. You're misusing the spider chart, "the performance charts are not a literal translation of a performance specification".

 

[The Critic]

Yes which makes perfect sense. With an approval dictating an HT/HS of 2.6, wear protection is definitely more of an emphasis than for a 502 00 approved oil. It does not mean that the 508 00 oil produces less wear than the 502 00 oil. You're misusing the spider chart, "the performance charts are not a literal translation of a performance specification".

So, what exactly is this tool useful for? Are we merely comparing "areas of focus" between specs?

 

[RooflessVW]

View attachment 115837
So, what exactly is this tool useful for? Are we merely comparing "areas of focus" between specs?

Yes

 

[The Critic]

Yes

If true, the tool isn't very valuable at all.

I would like to see a real-world use example for this tool.

 

[edyvw]

From that standpoint, yes. But is it possible that the engine wear tests were performed under the same environment for both specs?

Highly doubt. Different engines will be used.

 

[edyvw]

If true, the tool isn't very valuable at all.

I would like to see a real-world use example for this tool.

It is a relative emphasis on the relative comparison tool. Lubrizol specifically says to compare oils in the same category, which would be, let's say, BMW LL17FE and VW508.00/509.00.
Still, they have different test engines. BMW uses N20 engines as testing equipment. Not sure what VW uses for this approval.

 

[Shel_B]

View attachment 115837
So, what exactly is this tool useful for? Are we merely comparing "areas of focus" between specs?

I've always looked at the charts as generally comparing performance characteristics between two or more oils.

 

[The Critic]

It is a relative emphasis on the relative comparison tool. Lubrizol specifically says to compare oils in the same category, which would be, let's say, BMW LL17FE and VW508.00/509.00.
Still, they have different test engines. BMW uses N20 engines as testing equipment. Not sure what VW uses for this approval.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/media/2972/05-engine-oil-specifications-na.pdf

Basically, Mid SAPS/ACEA C3 >3.5 oils with others? So 504 vs C30/C40?

 

[TiGeo]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned I was looking at HPL Euro 5W-40 (4/1Gallon jugs) and I was ok with cost.
But I got 56 quarts at home between Ravenol VST 5W-40 and QS FS Euro 5W-40 which is good for 9 OC so I have to wait.

Holy cow that's a lot of oil in reserve!

For those of us that don't have tea with the guy formulating and making the oil, we're going to stick with approvals.

By all means, you run what you want. No need to have tea with anyone, the company and their pedigree should be enough to trust it..good lord they make oil for race teams.

 

[Overfill]

I've never found an oil certification that demanded performance in ringland cleaning (varnish removal and de-coking.) That is valuable to many, including myself.

 

[edyvw]

View attachment 115838

https://www.infineuminsight.com/media/2972/05-engine-oil-specifications-na.pdf

Basically, Mid SAPS/ACEA C3 >3.5 oils with others? So 504 vs C30/C40?

I think C30 would have same requirements as 504.00/507.00. Same as C40 and VW511.00. But, yes. Not sure whether Porsche deviated in some requirements from VW lately.

 

[jurko]

Holy cow that's a lot of oil in reserve!

Yes it is. I got little stupid about a year ago when I saw QSUD Euro 5W-40 at WM online for $13.99 which was error on part of WM. As soon as I purchased 7/5QT jugs they changed the price to $17.99

 

[OVERKILL]

I've never found an oil certification that demand performance in ringland cleaning (varnish removal and de-coking.) That is valuable to many, including myself.

You wouldn't find a requirement for coking removal, it would be for prevention.
It (prevention) is part of Seq IIIG and subsequent tests:

As well as the M271 Wear Test (Ring sticking) and OM 646/VW TDI Mercedes tests (piston cleanliness):

 

[Overfill]

You wouldn't find a requirement for coking removal, it would be for prevention.
It (prevention) is part of Seq IIIG and subsequent tests:
As well as the M271 Wear Test (Ring sticking) and OM 646/VW TDI Mercedes tests (piston cleanliness):

This is good info for those who haven't seen these before.

My point was more or less that explicit pursuit and usage of products with x-y-z certifications on the whole won't let the engine owner move directionally to a significantly cleaner ringpack (specifically via removal of varnish and coke deposits.) A la, "what's done is done."

As you've shown and discussed in the past with the Mobil ad, they elect to use small amounts of esters and alkylated naphthalenes in many of their product lines (mainly Mobil 1 lineups,) which can result in some ring cleaning. But they don't include or need those to meet specs or certifications.

The strong ability to clean by including significant proportions of these base oils (and commensurate detergents/dispersants) puts the deposit performance of a cert in good perspective with relation to HPL's relative performance.

A40 is a tough spec. So is MB 228.51, and many others. But they are still a deposit "preventative" spec, not a "restorative" spec.

They don't exist.

 

[OVERKILL]

This is good info for those who haven't seen these before.

My point was more or less that explicit pursuit and usage of products with x-y-z certifications on the whole won't let the engine owner move directionally to a significantly cleaner ringpack (specifically via removal of varnish and coke deposits.) A la, "what's done is done."

As you've shown and discussed in the past with the Mobil ad, they elect to use small amounts of esters and alkylated naphthalenes in many of their product lines (mainly Mobil 1 lineups,) which can result in some ring cleaning. But they don't include or need those to meet specs or certifications.

The strong ability to clean by including significant proportions of these base oils (and commensurate detergents/dispersants) puts the deposit performance of a cert in good perspective with relation to HPL's relative performance.

A40 is a tough spec. So is MB 228.51, and many others. But they are still a deposit "preventative" spec, not a "restorative" spec.

They don't exist.

Yes, though I think from an OEM perspective, none of these companies are going to be concerned about cleaning-up deposits. If you are Mercedes, your goal is to prevent them in the first place, so that makes sense. Oils that will actually clean that area are well above and beyond what the OEM's are interested in.

 

[TiGeo]

Yes, though I think from an OEM perspective, none of these companies are going to be concerned about cleaning-up deposits. If you are Mercedes, your goal is to prevent them in the first place, so that makes sense. Oils that will actually clean that area are well above and beyond what the OEM's are interested in.

My question has always been w/r to this discussion - what you are losing by adding additional "cleaning" ability to an oil?

 

[xgmad]

His general "distrust" towards lighter oils.

I live in a very hot climate and also not gentle at all at the gas pedal.
The mk6 I have has lots of idle time, high rev's, and lots of town traffic. I hyper mill when I can though.
The mk7 gli is no exception to my driving habits.