Best MB 229.51.

[Tikka]

Hi.
Simple question.
If you were required to use a MB229.51 Oil with a 5w-30 viscosity, which one would you use?

I realise they all meet the minimum requirements laid down by Mercedes to enable approval, but which Oil goes that extra mile to give an outstanding product? One that goes over and above the basic requirements of the specification.

Very interested in your thoughts please. Also remember i have little real and in depth knowledge, so go easy on me.

 

[Pelican]

Hi.
Simple question.
If you were required to use a MB229.51 Oil with a 5w-30 viscosity, which one would you use?

I realise they all meet the minimum requirements laid down by Mercedes to enable approval, but which Oil goes that extra mile to give an outstanding product? One that goes over and above the basic requirements of the specification.

Very interested in your thoughts please. Also remember i have little real and in depth knowledge, so go easy on me.

I have used Fuchs-Titan; LiquiMoly; Total Quartz.

 

[DrDanger]

I would(will in a month when I change oil) try the Elf evolution full-tech fe 5w-30.
On the cheap end but with 400ppm of moly(lots) and a little esters. Not a lot of ZDDP.
Supposed to have "synthetic base oils", so not just Group 3 and the esters.
Should be a very smooth oil, "special" Vanderbuilt 0402 add pack(cant find the pdf) to meet both - 0,6% SAPS req and MB229.51, focused on reducing friction and low SAPS.

https://www.lubs-products-database.total.com/gallery/ORIGINALS/visuels/pdfs/TDS_ELF_EVOLUTION%20FULL-TECH%20FE%205W-30_BUZ_202101_EN.pdf

 

[blufeb95]

I'd use anything that's MB229.52.

 

[Jetronic]

Best for what? Best cleaning? Best in HTHS? Best wear protection? Best fuel consumption? Highest TBN? Lowest SAPs? Cheapest per mile?

 

[tc1446]

How about low SAPs?

 

[Averroes]

If it has the rating, it has the rating, any differences between brands would be so minuscule that you, your car and your know it all neighbour would not be able to tell.

 

[edyvw]

Mobil1 ESP 5W30
Motul 5W30 X-Clean+.

 

[930.engineering]

That may help making a choice:

Mercedes-Benz Betriebsstoff-Vorschriften

Die Mercedes-Benz Betriebsstoff-Vorschriften zeigen eine Übersicht der Anforderungen der im Fahrzeug benötigten Betriebsstoffe und der empfohlenen Produkte. Betriebsstoffe sind alle zum Betrieb eines Mercedes-Fahrzeugs / Aggregats erforderlichen Flüssigkeiten bzw. Schmiermittel z.B. Kraftstoff...

bevo.mercedes-benz.com

Personally I'd most likely use what I use - Ravenol REP (or RUP). Ran M1 ESP 5W-30
in the past without the slightest complaint. They all have an excellent reputation on
this forum, probably at least to some degree due to noticeably above average specs.
I appreciate if the oil simutaneously meets well regarded approvals such as Porsche
C30 or C40, VW 504 00 or 511 00, BMW LL04. Not sure if MB 229.52 is anything of a
bonus of that kind.

I would(will in a month when I change oil) try the Elf evolution full-tech fe 5w-30.
On the cheap end but with 400ppm of moly(lots) and a little esters. Not a lot of ZDDP.
Supposed to have "synthetic base oils", so not just Group 3 and the esters.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but since pour point is mediocre -36°C it's certainly just
group 3 based. I'd bet that's one of the very worst MB229.51 approved in this regard.
.

 

[Tikka]

Best for what? Best cleaning? Best in HTHS? Best wear protection? Best fuel consumption? Highest TBN? Lowest SAPs? Cheapest per mile?

Hi.
That is a good question. I suppose using a general term such as 'best' just highlights my lack of in depth knowledge.

Saps is not really an issue as i have no DPF to consider. Any fuel consumption gains would be miniscule with a 2 ton 4x4. So i suppose that wear protection is my main consideration. Things like turbo bearings, timing chain, crank bearings. The engine gets mostly stop start town driving.
Thanks.

 

[Tikka]

If it has the rating, it has the rating, any differences between brands would be so minuscule that you, your car and your know it all neighbour would not be able to tell.

Hi.
This is what i am trying to ascertain. Are there manufacturers that get an approval by making an Oil that just makes the standard necessary for approval, and are there Oils that not only make approval standards but go above them? Does that make sense?

 

[Tikka]

That may help making a choice:

Mercedes-Benz Betriebsstoff-Vorschriften

Die Mercedes-Benz Betriebsstoff-Vorschriften zeigen eine Übersicht der Anforderungen der im Fahrzeug benötigten Betriebsstoffe und der empfohlenen Produkte. Betriebsstoffe sind alle zum Betrieb eines Mercedes-Fahrzeugs / Aggregats erforderlichen Flüssigkeiten bzw. Schmiermittel z.B. Kraftstoff...

bevo.mercedes-benz.com

Personally I'd most likely use what I use - Ravenol REP (or RUP). Ran M1 ESP 5W-30
in the past without the slightest complaint. They all have an excellent reputation on
this forum, probably at least to some degree due to noticeably above average specs.
I appreciate if the oil simutaneously meets well regarded approvals such as Porsche
C30 or C40, VW 504 00 or 511 00, BMW LL04. Not sure if MB 229.52 is anything of a
bonus of that kind.




I'm sorry to disappoint you, but since pour point is mediocre -36°C it's certainly just
group 3 based. I'd bet that's one of the very worst MB229.51 approved in this regard.
.

Hi.
Ravenol is available if a little pricey. I have read good things about it.

 

[930.engineering]

Things like turbo bearings, timing chain, crank bearings.

Crank bearings are rarely an issue today. No clue if timing chain is an issue on the OM642. Turbo charger bearings love high flashpoints, low Noack and short OCI. Turbos use to die because lack of lubrication. That lack of lubrications is often caused by clogged oil lines. Clogged oil lines are often caused by heat after engine shut-off and weak oil (age, low flashpoint, high Noack, weak detergents). Auxiliary (electric) water pumps help reducing heat build-up on turbo bearings after shut-off, but proper oil likely also helps. Yes, that's what approvals are for, but similar approval PCMOs are still different. Not so much of an issue if you're driving in town only though. If Ravenol REP is too expensive just go for M1 ESP 5W-30. Great value. Or any other MB229.51 oil with some additional of the above mentioned approvals.
.

 

[Jetronic]

Hi.
This is what i am trying to ascertain. Are there manufacturers that get an approval by making an Oil that just makes the standard necessary for approval, and are there Oils that not only make approval standards but go above them? Does that make sense?

When you get an approval, you compete against other oils with the same approval. There's no incentive to go beyond what is required, certainly not at extra cost.

I would not look at 229.51 or 229.52 oils if my primary concern was wear, and I had no dpf to worry about.

I would look at 229.5 oils and pick one with higher HTHS viscosity and more group IV oil in the mix, vs group III

 

[edyvw]

When you get an approval, you compete against other oils with the same approval. There's no incentive to go beyond what is required, certainly not at extra cost.

I would not look at 229.51 or 229.52 oils if my primary concern was wear, and I had no dpf to worry about.

I would look at 229.5 oils and pick one with higher HTHS viscosity and more group IV oil in the mix, vs group III

There are incentives. First of all, oils like this are approved for multiple specifications , so they might exceed some requirements of MB229.51.
Second, ingredients used are not only used in this specific oil. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 has Noack of 7.1%. It could easily have 10% like average Liqui Moly and still be approved.
Then it is question of know-how and brand. Mobil1&Co wouldn’t be where they are they were just doing bare minimum. They would be Quaker State, Pennzoil, in ownership of other companies, for a reason.

 

[DrDanger]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but since pour point is mediocre -36°C it's certainly just
group 3 based. I'd bet that's one of the very worst MB229.51 approved in this regard.
.

You are right, they changed the base oil for 2021 to obviously just Group 3.
Hopefully they left the add pack alone, no way to know for sure, short of a VOA.
Russian oil club stopped updating on this oil.

The value from spending time here(for me) is getting info on a better performing/cheaper oil( additives or other mechanical / ac / detailing info) and a general feel for / if these are worth it for the application.

As I have an older engine, with less than perfect LPG conversion and not a lot of power, an oil with more friction modifiers (moly, esters and organic compounds) is worth it (even required).
On a turbo engine or a big NA engine, differences are harder to find.

I found high moly oils to be better performing/smoother for the engines I run.
Castrol Magnatec/Edge is also a smooth oil.

 

[weasley]

This is what i am trying to ascertain. Are there manufacturers that get an approval by making an Oil that just makes the standard necessary for approval, and are there Oils that not only make approval standards but go above them? Does that make sense?

In reality it is impossible to just meet the requirements of an OEM specification. The specification requirements are a long list of laboratory, bench and engine tests, each with limits that must be met. The truth is that when you run all of these tests you end up with results that pass the limits by various amounts - sometimes just enough to qualify, sometimes they fly past the limit. The important thing is that you have a full complement of passing results. The approval that you get is no better if you have better results - a pass is a pass (I liken it to a high jump competition - if you clear the bar you pass the round, no matter how high your clearance was, you don't get any extra merits).

If the test data throws out some better-than-required results then it is up to the oil marketer to take advantage of that with claims that might say "xx% better than..." or "3x lower than..." or whatever. One thing that is clear though, you will never get to see the full data set for a given oil.

 

[Tikka]

Crank bearings are rarely an issue today. No clue if timing chain is an issue on the OM642. Turbo charger bearings love high flashpoints, low Noack and short OCI. Turbos use to die because lack of lubrication. That lack of lubrications is often caused by clogged oil lines. Clogged oil lines are often caused by heat after engine shut-off and weak oil (age, low flashpoint, high Noack, weak detergents). Auxiliary (electric) water pumps help reducing heat build-up on turbo bearings after shut-off, but proper oil likely also helps. Yes, that's what approvals are for, but similar approval PCMOs are still different. Not so much of an issue if you're driving in town only though. If Ravenol REP is too expensive just go for M1 ESP 5W-30. Great value. Or any other MB229.51 oil with some additional of the above mentioned approvals.
.

Hi.
I hear what you are saying in regards to turbos and lubrication. I always let the engine idle for a couple of minutes before switching off, particularly after a long and high speed motorway journey.

 

[Tikka]

When you get an approval, you compete against other oils with the same approval. There's no incentive to go beyond what is required, certainly not at extra cost.

I would not look at 229.51 or 229.52 oils if my primary concern was wear, and I had no dpf to worry about.

I would look at 229.5 oils and pick one with higher HTHS viscosity and more group IV oil in the mix, vs group III

Hi.
I did note that MB have said that 229.5 is acceptable to use in the OM642 engine without DPF. A good range of oils with this approval are available.
I just used Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 in my Wife's GM 1.6 Petrol. This is the gas to liquids technology.

 

[Tikka]

Mobil1 ESP 5W30
Motul 5W30 X-Clean+.

Hi edyvw.
Thank you for the recommendations. Both are readily available.

Do you think i should still stay with MB229.51/52 even though i have no DFP?

Thank you.