benefits to a .40/.357 sig vs. 9mm/.45

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
For a range gun that will not really get used for defense, stick with the 9mm. Cheaper ammo is good for practice, and hitting a target with a smaller round is better than missing with a bigger one.

Lower recoil as well.

.357 Sig is way over rated IMHO. Expensive to shoot as well.


+1. And the key word is overpriced. No real reason for it to exist.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
[/quote]

That is 100% not true what-so-ever. The 125 grain Federal 357 magnum from a 4 inch barreled revolver is the king of stopping power in any handgun, whether it be 32 auto to 454 casul. Nothing even compared to the number of recorded one stop shots with that round.


True

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: stumpman
Yuk-

The 357 sig has an ideal penetration depth. 12" in ballistic gel. I view a hollowpoint as expanding to a larger diameter quicker when velocity is increased. The faster the expansion the quicker the energy dump. When the energy is expended the penetration stops. This is why the same hollowpoint will penetrate deeper when moving slower. As with a 9mm.

Yes, I just shoot better with the little Sig. 2" is the best I can do with any of my handguns. The P239 with CrimsonTrace laser grips make it easy to look good at the range.


So if you loaded a 357 sig to half the energy as normal, using the same bullet, it would penetrate deeper?

If you could drive a 9mm sized bullet at say, 2,600ft./sec, then it would penetrate half as much as a standard 357 sig???

 

[Gregory]

Shot placement matters more than so called stopping power in all common sd pistol rounds.

 

[stumpman]

Gregory- I agree 100%. Shot placement with the best round is better than shot placement with a lesser round.

But shot placement is not important when shooting a taser.

Drew- Speed affects 2 critical issues. The faster a bullet goes the more reliably it: 1) expands upon contact and 2) the more energy it has to dump in the intended target.

 

[Yuk]

Originally Posted By: stumpman
The faster a bullet goes the more reliably it: 1) expands upon contact and 2) the more energy it has to dump in the intended target.


This sounds reasonable and I haven't heard this stated before. Now then, why not just use +P hollow point ammo in a 9mm?

 

[stumpman]

Yuk-

It seems that the threshold for the ultimate handgun round is a 125 grain hollowpoint pushed around 1400 fps. A 9mm +P+ 125 grain HP can only be safely loaded to 1250 fps. It comes close, but it is pushed to it's limit. The 357 sig was designed, both the gun and bottlenecked cartridge, to accompish this at safe pressure.

 

[Gregory]

With today's bullet designs, the delta between 9mm vs 40 vs 45 is rather small.

What's the reload time on a taser?

 

[Yuk]

Please forgive my ignorance, what is "the delta"? The stopping power measurement?

 

[chevrofreak]

Bullet design is more important than diameter (within reason) or velocity.

That's why modern hollowpoint design has leveled the playing field for all popular calibers. 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP and .357 SIG are all completely adequate for self defense with the right ammunition selection.

That's why I feel 100% confident with my 9mm and Federal HST ammunition.

 

[Tempest]

Energy transfer is bunk. It's all about doing damage to vital organs and blood vessels. This is why the high power magnums often have lower stop rates compared to lower energy rounds. The round has to penetrate enough to get the organs while providing the largest possible wound channel. Over penetration is not desired in the police/civilian realm.

You CAN drive a hollow point too fast so as to cause it to break up too early so that it will not reach organs. This is even more complicated on oblique shots where you have to penetrate arms/bone first and or heavy clothing.
Hardball penetrates great, but provides minimal wound channel and tends to over penetrate. A properly designed hollow point driven to the speed it is designed for is the best.
Simply ramping up the velocity on an existing bullet design does not make it more effective.
I tend to like mid weight bullets in all calibers.

9mm works fine for most civilian encounters. Police tend to deal with cars and obstacles more often so a heavier round is nice. I think .40cal is a very nice compromise of power, capacity, weight, and recoil for most officers.

I'll still grab my 1911 .45ACP if all I can have is a pistol.

 

[stumpman]

I'll reach over my 1911 .45ACP and grab my .357 Sig if all I can have is a pistol.

 

[Gregory]

Both will do just fine.

Next week I'll be using my 454 Alaskan as I'll be bear hunting. Got it used (can't tell) for a good price and 3 days out of the year is enough to carry that boat anchor.

 

[stumpman]

Here is a great unbiased ballistics study:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html

Seems 1500 FPS from a .357 Sig is not uncommon with CorBon 125 gn.

Comes very close to duplicating the .357 Mag 125 gn.

 

[gj]

I have a friend that bought a Glock 32,.357 sig. IMO a very powerful round.But it will cost you to shoot.I have a glock 21 SF .45 I like ot also.

 

[Steve S]

Seems a good idea to stay with the same calibers you have.

 

[Pete591]

A .44 mag ported with tamed wadcutters is what Dirty Harry used.

The appearance of the gun is scary and so is the boom it makes.

That means a lot.


The .44 mag/.357 mag and .45 Auto are the top drawer handgun calibers. Most of the rest are used to cut costs I feel.

 

[joel95ex]

i don't care what anyone says, you hit someone in the sternum with a 9mm HP, they are going down... and that requires practice, and you are more likely to practice a lot with 9mm since it is so cheap to shoot FMJ bulk ammo. use high quality HP's for carry, home, or car and get bulk ammo from cabella's or mail orders. the key is to practice a lot, shooting, clearing malfuctions, and of course keep the gun clean and lubed.

 

[Drew99GT]

I totally agree joel. 9mm is the way to go for a pistol. Double Tap and BuffaloBore, and several other manufacturers, make some darn hot 9mm ammunition that will get the job done.

 

[FXjohn]

you can't beat good old .45acp and a good 1911.