benefits to a .40/.357 sig vs. 9mm/.45

[JHZR2]

Hello,

Ive been looking at various pistols, and lots of them are available as a .40/.357 sig and 9mm.

Im not carrying, and I own a very nice kimber 1911 if I want a .45. Im not looking for the typical arguments of the stopping power of a bigger bullet vs faster/more 9mm.

I suppose what Im looking for is if there is any other practical reason to own a .40S&W or .357 sig, vs. another 9mm.

The reality is that I can buy barrels to convert .40S&W guns to 9mm. That with a magazine allows me to still shoot cheaply, which is the benefit to a 9mm cartridge. So its a convertible, but so what?

But in any sort of scenario besides one-shot takedown, where folks argue .40 vs 9mm vs. .45, is there any other benefit to owning, say a .40 that I then convert to 9mm? For example, if I bought a sig p229 or glock 23, both in .40S&W, and then did a conversion to 9mm, would I have a gun that is built tougher (since the .40 has a higher chamber pressure, stronger recoil, etc.), and thus better longevity?????

My understanding is that 9mm is WAY more prevalent than .40. Additionally, .45 is more prevalent than .40 and about the same cost as the .40. Thus from a practical shooting standpoint, if the guns I like and desire are available as 9mm (e.g. glock 19 or sig p229 DAK) or .45(e.g. 1911 or H&K USP), then there is no point to getting the version that is .40, right? In a worst-case survival scenario there ought to be a lot more 9mm and .45 than .40, and the world over, there ought to be more 9mm parts, right?

So, enough rambling... is there any practical benefit to owning a gun in .40, compared to just owning 9mm and .45s?

Thanks,

JMH

 

[Gregory]

Lots of 40, 45, 9mm out and about.

Get the one you want and be happy.

10mm, 40 and 357 sig can usally be converted with just a barrel purchase.

40 to 9mm will require a new slide plus a barrel and maybe some other parts as well like magazines for example.

 

[1WildPig]

Nope, no benefit, and you wouldn't have a gun built any tougher...most .40 pistols were a 9mm first, and thus being a .40 actually makes them a weaker pistol in terms of longevity. I'm like yourself, I don't own any .40 caliber pistols - I don't see the need or benefit. I think it was "marketed" to the people (law enforcement mostly, and I'm a cop too, firearms instructor actually) as a "best" cartridge between the 9mm and .45. Funny, we already had a 180(185) grain cartridge moving at a thousand feet per second - it was/is a 185 grain .45! I know, I know, the pistols were too big and it wouldn't hold 15 rds and we had to have that, and blah, blah, blah....I think THE caliber to have is a 9mm, it's the most popular world wide and has the lowest cost for factory ammo. I really like my Kimber .45s but if I had to pick a pistol to pack up and run with, it'd be my 9mm's, most likely my Glocks...my poor BHPs, guess they can keep my Kimbers' company til I get back..

 

[chevrofreak]

9mm > *

 

[Camu Mahubah]

Get this one! She shoots both .40 and 10mm!

I know that is not the answer you wanted but it is an interesting answer.

I have asked myself the same question you are asking many times. Why would someone want a .40? It does work I guess.

If you want a pistol that was born as a .40 and later came the 9mm. Take a look at this one!

 

[Camu Mahubah]

That link I posted for the Steyr was really old. Here's a newer one.

http://www.steyrarms.com/index.php?id=208

I think the Steyr is absolutely gorgeous. Designed by a Glock engineer. Much prettier in my book. I cain't get one until I sell my Model 66-2.

 

[Gregory]

If you shoot USPSA you need .4 DIA to make major power factor in LTD class.

 

[Tempest]

For a range gun that will not really get used for defense, stick with the 9mm. Cheaper ammo is good for practice, and hitting a target with a smaller round is better than missing with a bigger one.

Lower recoil as well.

.357 Sig is way over rated IMHO. Expensive to shoot as well.

 

[Yuk]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

.357 Sig is way over rated IMHO.


I've often wondered about this. I've read that one of the advantages of the .40 cal. round over 9mm is that the .40 is less likely to over penetrate the target vs. 9mm. If this the case why use a .357 Sig catridge that will penetrate even more than a 9mm cartridge?

 

[Buffman]

I've never even been able to find a .357 sig box of catridges at any local gun store either...

I'm not sure why I ended up with my .40 S&W either. Just happended to have the XD I was looking at in the .40 the day I went to buy it.

 

[stumpman]

I own 2 9mm's, Glock & Browning. I have Sig, Colt, HK, and Springfield in .45. I own revolvers also. But my favorite handgun is a Sig P239 in .357 sig.
Not only is it very accurate(2" at 25 feet), it duplicates the .357 Mag round that holds the highest one shot stop rating- 96%.
I am a big fan of the 357 sig.

 

[stumpman]

Also, due to the bottle neck design, the 357 sig is the least likely to have a failure to feed. High reliability,highest stopping power,accurate,compact & slim pistol- 357 sig has more going for it than the 9mm,40 cal,or 45 acp. Cost and availability are the 2 drawbacks.

 

[Tempest]

Lots of blast, noise and recoil as well. Also hard on guns.

 

[Yuk]

Originally Posted By: stumpman
Also, due to the bottle neck design, the 357 sig is the least likely to have a failure to feed. High reliability,highest stopping power,accurate,compact & slim pistol- 357 sig has more going for it than the 9mm,40 cal,or 45 acp. Cost and availability are the 2 drawbacks.


Are you saying the .357 Sig doesn't over penetrate? If not, why doesn't it when certain 9 mm do?

 

[Drew99GT]

I'd seriously question the notion of highest stopping power with .357 sig. 357 mag, yes, but not 357 sig. 40 smith and wesson has a better track record in police statistics then 357 sig.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?caliber=0

And 357 sig I believe has more problems with over-penetration then 9mm, since 357 sig is essentially a 9mm bullet with more casing and more powder behind it, which means higher velocity.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: stumpman

Not only is it very accurate(2" at 25 feet), it duplicates the .357 Mag round that holds the highest one shot stop rating- 96%.


That is 100% not true what-so-ever. The 125 grain Federal 357 magnum from a 4 inch barreled revolver is the king of stopping power in any handgun, whether it be 32 auto to 454 casul. Nothing even compared to the number of recorded one stop shots with that round.

 

[stumpman]

What is the difference between the 2. 125 grain hollowpoint at 1500 fps.
Here is a note from a reloading manual a few years ago:

This is a new cartridge. Here is what the people at Accurate Arms Powder Company say about the round: "Inquiries led us to Federal Cartridge, who, at the time was the sole source of ammo for the .357 Sig. We learned that .357 Sig is basically the .40 S&W cartridge necked down to take 9mm bullets. This cartridge was developed specifically for the law enforcement market. It was intended to duplicate the ballistics of the highly regarded 125 Grain JHP .357 Magnum load as fired in a 4" barrel revolver. This, the .357 Sig basically does.

 

[Yuk]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

And 357 sig I believe has more problems with over-penetration then 9mm, since 357 sig is essentially a 9mm bullet with more casing and more powder behind it, which means higher velocity.


Again, I'd like to see a definitive answer on this point. If it does over-penetrate, I can't see what possible advantage it has over any other round. Particularly a 9mm +P.

Stumpman,

Assuming you are citing the 2" at 25' figures from an unsupported position. It is my belief that any number of pistols can do that. From a support many tuned 1911's are good for 1 inch at 25 yards. My stock 9mm, CZ-85 does just under 4" at 25 meters (not by my hands, but others have done that with my pistol).

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: stumpman
What is the difference between the 2.


The fact that the 357 mag has a higher percentage of one shot stops in actual police shootings. Not to mention it still ballistically outperforms the 357 sig. Federal 357 mag 125 grain JHP goes 1440 ft/sec and produces 575 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. Federal 357 sig goes 1350 ft/sec and produces 506 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. You can safely load 357 mag for an all steel late model revolver to 1500+ ft./sec and 800 ft. lbs of muzzle energy! You'd blow your hand up trying to do that with a 357 sig pistol!

 

[stumpman]

Yuk-

The 357 sig has an ideal penetration depth. 12" in ballistic gel. I view a hollowpoint as expanding to a larger diameter quicker when velocity is increased. The faster the expansion the quicker the energy dump. When the energy is expended the penetration stops. This is why the same hollowpoint will penetrate deeper when moving slower. As with a 9mm.

Yes, I just shoot better with the little Sig. 2" is the best I can do with any of my handguns. The P239 with CrimsonTrace laser grips make it easy to look good at the range.