Basic Questions about the AR 15

[IndyFan]

I'm going to purchase one real soon. Please tell me the basics, like what is the upper or lower, and so-forth.

Also, if they are banned, does that mean that barrels and other parts besides the main assembly will also be banned? I'm looking at a custom AR for 650 bucks with a Rock River "lower". All I know is that Rock River seems to be respected for their basic stuff, and then I can add better parts later.

What is the basic setup you would recommend? I'm getting standard iron sights, too. I want this thing to be rugged and nothing fancy, but I want it to be very reliable and long-lasting. I don't intend to shoot a huge number of rounds through it, either. Just occasional target shooting.

Any help is appreciated. Remember, my criteria are: low cost, simple, reliable, serviceable, and rugged.

 

[chevrofreak]

My best advice, buy something else

I think the AR-15 is poorly designed.

 

[IndyFan]

I'm 99% sure this is what I like. I've fired lots of guns, and I like the AR. Plus, my guess is that parts will be available for a long time, even if banned, even under the table.

I don't like the AK, even though parts are probably even more available.

What do you have and what do you like, Chevrofreak?

 

[JHZR2]

bill will be the most knowledgable personon this.

The lower kind of doesn't look like much, but it is the item thatgets registered. It can be pretty cheap, in a fully stripped form. The key is that the lower you buy is forged.

The upper is where the cost is. Mostmanufacturers sell full upper half assemblies. I'd say thatit seems that stag upper half units are a very good price to performance for what I've read. A stag complete rifle may be your best bet.


Bill I'm sure will set it straight from here

 

[GMBoy]

Rock River arms has never impressed me. Perhaps I've not seen their better items, though. How much money are you going to save building an AR yourself? I'd just buy a Bushmaster or S&W M&P and be done with it it. Both can be had for under $1000 and a warranty to boot.

I've built AK's and fooled with the SKS, but then again these are much cheaper guns. I have to admit, though, owning both AK's and AR's - when the sh-t hits the fan, I'm grabbing the AK before the AR15!

 

[Samilcar]

All of your criteria should be met by any of the major manufacturers such as Armalite, Bushmaster or Colt. The only exception would be the low cost requirement. Customer interest in AR rifles is very high at the moment. If someone was offering an AR for only $650 right now, I would be somewhat suspicious of that rifle.

As far as possible future bans being the same as the last one, or being more restrictive (no grandfathering, parts banned as well as rifles etc.), no one knows.

 

[Turk]

Guys,

I know the owner of Branch Custom Weapondry here in Mn and makes the BC-15.

He was in the Marines for 20 years, knows them well and has made many improvements for unmatched durability.

He designs and builds them all by himeslf...

I highly recommend and suggest that you include him in your decision process.

 

[IndyFan]

650 was before the rush, and is what is posted on their website still. My guess is that they will increase the price soon.

I don't have a huge amount of cash to blow, so I'm considering building it myself, as funds become available.

 

[IndyFan]

I've heard people swear by Rock River and slam Colt or Bushmaster, so it sounds like probably none of the big names are bad. I've heard that the standard Rock River trigger has a good feel compared to others, too.

Keep the thoughts coming. My ears are wide open.

 

[1sttruck]

Don't mess with banned parts. It may seem cool to put one over on the ZOG one world government, right up until you get a felony conviction and can never legally own a firearm again.

AR15s/M16 clones always get a bad rap, SKS/AK clones always get a good rap, but I never saw people doing much on the highpower range with a 7.62x39 weapon. They'd sometimes show up, full of koolaid on how superior the weapon was, and never complete the course because they did so poorly. The Marines did very well with their M16s all the way out to the 600yd line. In the Marines we qualified every year with the 'especially crummy M16A1' out to the 500 meter line. I know that aimed fire is not in vogue, that one is supposed to spray an area with a weapon that tolerates dirt better, but one wonders why large numbers of troops always seem to take cover when engaged by a one good rifleman.

If you want a 7.62 get an M1A/M14 clone. I've watched guys using them have to shoot three strings at the 300yd rapid in order for their groups to open up enough to count 10 shots, using iron sights.

 

[IndyFan]

I won't do anything if it is illegal, and won't even press the limits. Anything I do will be pre-ban or will be legal parts swapping or purchasing after the ban, or I simply won't do it.

I'm good with a standard weapon. Besides, I've talked to Iraq and Vietnam vets that say all too often they've seen AK recoil cause innacuracy while they were picking guys off with single shots or, in Iraq, with 3 round bursts. My father-in-law was an officer in Vietnam, and he LOVED his M16, in spite of the problems encountered then. He kept his in top condition and never had a reliability issue. He felt it was an excellent weapon and would choose it any day over the AK. He saw lots of combat, and feels very strongly about it. His influence is also strong in my desire for an AR.

 

[tom slick]

Do any of you guys use your M-16 derivative in actual field conditions? sand, mud, etc? do they really have issues when kept as pristine range only weapon?

I'm just curious if any of the complaints I read about the AR are founded in fact or are wives tales from poor maintenance and the typical attitude against things expensive and popular.

I find it interesting that this "piece of junk" has been the longest used service rife in US history. It could have changed many times.

 

[IndyFan]

I've read that once cleaning kits were issued, the jamming problems subsided. It amazes me that they originally thought this rifle would never need cleaning.

If my butt depended on any rifle, I'd be cleaning it every chance I got.

 

[Steve S]

When Ar 15 /M16 what ever designation you choose to use did not come with a forward assist When it first came into use ,the thing you push in the bullet doesn't go into the chamber all the way .The plan was to operate the bolt eject the bullet and cycle another into the chamber. The rifle has to be kept clean .The problem is the gas system . There have been mods and still are that makes the gas system like an Ak or a Garand type that the gas doesn't send crud to the bolt area. The AR is a real nice EZ to shoot rifle /carbine . The AK usually runs forever with out cleaning as compared to the AR15 . AR rifles can be called tack drivers in the latest designations service barrel the heavy barrel etc .I have owned 4 AR 15s and 1 Norinco AK type and the AK would never have a problem when not cleaned. The AR would gunk up using low quality surplus ammo. Sold them all over the years though I really liked the AK cause it was what it was.

 

[Shaman]

Steve S. Do you know anything about the Galil compared to the AK or SKS?

 

[CITYSLICKER]

Galil is the Israeli version of the AK.

AR's are not nearly as problem prone as some would have you believe , the gas system is NOT prone to malfunction , and provided you do not use el cheapo steel case " dirty " burning powdered ammo you will need to clean your AR for the sake of accuracy LONG before the action will become dirty enough to cause any problems from carbon fouling .

20" barrel is the standard length , and suggested for accuracy ( the sight radius is longer than the carbine length 16" ) velocity is higher with the longer barrel , and the cycling is generally also softer feling as well as being easier on case rims if you intend to reload .

Pretty much all of the well known names are fairly good , Bushmaster , Colt ( expensive ) , Armalite , Rock River , DPMS , and a whole bunch of other less well known names , Wilson combat , Les Bear , JP rifles .

If cost was no object JP rifles builds a great AR.

There are alot of small shops using commercial parts to build Ar's which are also good .

Don't use a [censored] barrel , buy good mags , use good ammo and your AR will run fine as long as you don't take it swimming , get it full of dirt/sand/[censored] and clean it somewhere short of a case of ammo ( my son generally exceeds a case before cleaning , notices accuracy falling off before malfunctions ) I personally clean mine 500 rounds or less .

Just .02 from some guy ...

Oh , BTW the McFarland 1 piece gas rings work well also .

 

[Buffman]

Stag Arms is a good place for your AR/Variant needs. I've heard great things about them, and that's where my left handed M4 will be coming from.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
Don't mess with banned parts. It may seem cool to put one over on the ZOG one world government, right up until you get a felony conviction and can never legally own a firearm again.

AR15s/M16 clones always get a bad rap, SKS/AK clones always get a good rap, but I never saw people doing much on the highpower range with a 7.62x39 weapon. They'd sometimes show up, full of koolaid on how superior the weapon was, and never complete the course because they did so poorly. The Marines did very well with their M16s all the way out to the 600yd line. In the Marines we qualified every year with the 'especially crummy M16A1' out to the 500 meter line. I know that aimed fire is not in vogue, that one is supposed to spray an area with a weapon that tolerates dirt better, but one wonders why large numbers of troops always seem to take cover when engaged by a one good rifleman.

If you want a 7.62 get an M1A/M14 clone. I've watched guys using them have to shoot three strings at the 300yd rapid in order for their groups to open up enough to count 10 shots, using iron sights.



While neither the M16/AR15 or AK/SKS guns can be considered "hi-power" by any means - I agree with you thst the AR is the more accurate rifle by far. But the AK shoots a more potent round and will work in the dirt. Best thing is to just buy one of each

 

[Buffman]

I shot a friend's AK today. Couldn't believe how simple it was to take down. However, no where near as hi powered as the M1 garand I brought with me today

 

[1sttruck]

'Highpower' is a type of rifle competition, using either a 'service' rifle, typically an M1A / M14 or an AR15 / M16, but M1 Garands were still considered service rifles at least a few years back, or using a 'match rifle', which would be anything but a service rifle but was usually a Winchester M70 Target. A common course of fire was 200yd slow fire offhand (standing), 200yd rapid fire kneeling, 300yd rapid fire prone, and 600yd slow fire prone.