Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?

[buster]

Yeah I get what you are saying with replacement additives. However. Pennzoil Plat High Mileage, SP formulation, has a ridiculously bad looking additive package all around. AND a TBN of 5 something which is like…***.

Someone said TBN is outdated. I’d like someone to explain that to me and also what other things are outdated now? Do we even trust oil analysis anymore?

So does Mobil 1 Triple Action. VOA looks very anemic. To take the guesswork out there are specification and tests that have to be met. So, if you're meeting and greatly exceeding those, I don't see there being an issue. It is a bit shocking when you look at some of the newer VOAs of the SP variety. But this trend has been going on for 20 years now?

TBN may be showing lower though due to the test not being able to detect ashless additives. That's something to keep in mind.

Mobil 1 Triple Action 5w30 EP VOA

I am running this now. SP VOAs are not that interesting to look at 😁

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[jimbrewer]

Law of diminishing returns. The longer the OCI the less potential savings in stretching it even further.

 

[Brian123]

I'm sure I'll get some snarky replies from some self-proclaimed experts (in b4) but I've been thinking lately.

I really wonder if we've reached a state of decline (dystopia?) in our commercial lubricants, where brands are no longer proudly formulating the best product for the consumer but rather, like everything else, focusing their efforts on pleasing the man in charge (government). From VOAs and UOAs it appears most (not all) products are coming in significantly weaker both in formulation and performance than in years' past, not due to choice, but due to necessity. When the environmentalists (and car manufacturers by proxy) are screaming for less emissions, you can only bend over so far before you're bottling coconut oil and telling people to reduce their OCIs.

Having joined Bob a decade or so ago, I remember the gold standard was pretty much a 10k change for synthetics, though some pushed it further, and OCD folks would not push as far. These days I'm not seeing nearly as many lengthy intervals, and one has to wonder, with these reduced service intervals due to (imo silly, and increasingly tight) environmental regulations, are we really doing the environment any good?

-J

You will not get a Snarky Reply from me! LOL

1) If you will get rid of your car in 100K or less, then do a 10K OCI.
2) If you want to keep your car for more than 100K or as long as you can, do 5K OCI's.

 

[JohnnyG]

There's a whole lot of anecdata and "feelings" in this thread. How about some UOA backed science?

I guess I was that guy back in 2005. I ran a 12,000 mi OCI and sent a sample to Blackstone.
This was a Chevy truck, 2004 m/y, 5.3. Went by the GMOLM at the time, which was set for 12,000 mi max (they lowered that shortly thereafter, to I believe 10,000).
I realize thing were very different back then, and I don't think the 5.3 had DI of any kind, but at that time, the argument was about the OLM.
Blackstone report came back fine, on Havoline 10W-30, and said that it could have gone longer.

Haven't worried about OCI ever since. The MB says once a year, and that's what it gets.
Now it's someone else's turn to "go the distance" and report back. Maybe someone with a DI engine?
10,000 mi baby!

 

[Bryanccfshr]

There are a lot of generalizations. I have been here for 19 years, learned so much, done some oil analysis and posted some at one time or another. I have listened and read from some of the most respected oil analysis folks and formulateFs who post so many nuggets here that are not generally known or available to the average consumer And I have grown comfortable with making these decisions for myself and situation.
basically I change my oil when it’s easy to remember. If I am doing the majority of my driving on dirt or dusty roads or towing heavy loads etc I will deduct for that OCI, that doesn’t mean if I go in a few dirt roads I deduct I mean if I am working in west Texas and driving on caliche between Well sites for a 12 hour shift half the days of the year…then yes I cut the OCI to 5 k.

as a daily driver I start my truck and drive 7 miles to work at 65 on pavement in rural setting, I usually drive home to take lunch since if I stay in the plant I do t get a lunch break. I take occasional weekend trips to town for a Costco run or when I am fortunate take fishing trips to the lake. ..I am going to continue running 10k mile oil changes likely keeping with M1 0w40
I don’t care about the cost of oil changes but I am a busy guy, who prefers to do them himself but I do t want to do them anymore than needed As my spare time is precious. I work a lot of hours and half my weekends I am on call anyway and I have another house to go to and maintain periodically That’s 500 miles away.

I plan on keeping the Tacoma indefinitely 80,400 on the clock and never a problem mechanically. The sheet metal is not my favorite for the weight savings efforts but that’s annother topic. And it has been through some severe times and drives tight. That’s what I bought it for is to serve me in work, and in play. Probably upgrade the suspension, bushings and ball joints with the next tire change To keep it tight, but the general grabber AT 2s seem to be a long wearing tire!

 

[Bryanccfshr]

delete repeat post

 

[H. Swanson]

You will not get a Snarky Reply from me! LOL

1) If you will get rid of your car in 100K or less, then do a 10K OCI.
2) If you want to keep your car for more than 100K or as long as you can, do 5K OCI's.

Interesting. The OM for my 2023 Santa Calligraphy says roughly the same thing. Severe OCI beyond 100k miles regardless of driving habits.

 

[SeaJay]

Absolutely shocking, the majority on an oil change and info website subscribe to the "do it more often than recommended by the manufacturer" theory. Preaching to the choir.

 

[JHZR2]

I’ve always stick to 5k or less intervals. To me the days never began of a 10k interval.

Sorry but this is just hogwash.

We have been able to do 10k intervals when the conditions are correct, since at least the early-mid 90s.

Oils have only gotten better since then.

The caveat has always been the right conditions. And of course the oil companies tell folks that everything is severe so they sell more oil. Getting to ground truth is harder. That’s where oil life monitors, if done correctly help a ton.

Our odyssey which sees majority around town gets the olm around 5k. My accord which sees a lot of highway goes around 14k. Heck, my 2004 Saab could do 14k OCI as its base.

We only got 238k on 10k mile changes of our 94 previa on dino oil for the first 150k or so. And it would still be running had a hurricane not dropped a tree on it.

There absolutely is such a thing as a 10k OCI.

In any other industry folks condemn lubes with evidence.

 

[nicholas]

The lubes are fine. The fuel dilution of the engine oil experienced by many direct injected engines is not.

Bingo

 

[vpr5703]

My last car (2011 Ford Fusion w/ 2.5L NA 4cyl) taken to 324k miles on 10k OCIs. Burned ~8oz of oil over a 10k OCI. No issues that would otherwise indicate any major issues within the engine. Oil never came out of the sump shimmering or chunky. Engine still had plenty of power for its age and mileage.

My current car (2018 Mazda 6, 2.5L NA 4cyl) recommends 7500 mile OCIs, and that's what I do. About 90% of my mileage is highway and I drive at least 2 hours per day to/from work. So I don't foresee any issues with this engine, either.

I guess....it just depends LOL

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

I did 10k OCI on my old Prius out of laziness/lack of time to go to a shop and get it done. With mine and my wife's new car being Turbo Direct Injected and having a garage and big driveway now, i'm doing 5k intervals on both. Stretching it to 10k would save us so little money it's not worth it

 

[OVERKILL]

Sorry but this is just hogwash.

We have been able to do 10k intervals when the conditions are correct, since at least the early-mid 90s.

Oils have only gotten better since then.

The caveat has always been the right conditions. And of course the oil companies tell folks that everything is severe so they sell more oil. Getting to ground truth is harder. That’s where oil life monitors, if done correctly help a ton.

Our odyssey which sees majority around town gets the olm around 5k. My accord which sees a lot of highway goes around 14k. Heck, my 2004 Saab could do 14k OCI as its base.

We only got 238k on 10k mile changes of our 94 previa on dino oil for the first 150k or so. And it would still be running had a hurricane not dropped a tree on it.

There absolutely is such a thing as a 10k OCI.

In any other industry folks condemn lubes with evidence.

I've gotten into this with him in great detail in another thread. Despite being so young, he is totally unyielding on this subject, it's wild. I expect this kind of stubbornness from somebody with one foot in the nursing home, not somebody in their early 20's.

 

[Zee09]

I've gotten into this with him in great detail in another thread. Despite being so young, he is totally unyielding on this subject, it's wild. I expect this kind of stubbornness from somebody with one foot in the nursing home, not somebody in their early 20's.

Hey Overkill back down now..
He calls me daddy....

 

[53' Stude]

Hey Overkill back down now..
He calls me daddy....

Didn’t know you and Blake were related

 

[Azimuth]

Genuine question, why is it that the Car Care Nut is so adamant on 5K OCIs? The video of the Camry that did highway miles and was fully dealer serviced, yet wrecked the engine is quite famous now.

 

[Shel_B]

Genuine question, why is it that the Car Care Nut is so adamant on 5K OCIs? The video of the Camry that did highway miles and was fully dealer serviced, yet wrecked the engine is quite famous now.

Because he's been a Toyota tech for decades and has seen what happens to different Toyota engines when OCIs go much past 5,000 miles.

Tangentially, he puts his money where his mouth is. He recently purchased a new Camry and did the first oil change at around 1,000 miles and afterward went to 5,000 mile OCIs.

 

[vpr5703]

Genuine question, why is it that the Car Care Nut is so adamant on 5K OCIs? The video of the Camry that did highway miles and was fully dealer serviced, yet wrecked the engine is quite famous now.

I suspect because it's one of those things where you can't do damage by changing your oil too frequently. Plus he has seen the results of other OCIs, and has decided that 5k is a comfortable mark for Toyota engines. Some very likely can go further than 5k, but without a guarantee that the driver / oil change place / dealership isn't putting the cheapest oil they can find into the engine, 5k is a mark that almost all oil can hit without negative effects most likely.

 

[OilUzer]

I'm thinking with "synthetic" oil, 7500 is the new 3000 miles.

Curious if we have some data showing the average OCI recommendation of ALL modern owner's manual (specifying synthetic or modern oil) in US? Or the median?

I change my "20K Miles" M1 EP 10W-30 at about 7500 miles.

Before anyone gets excited, you know what I mean. For example when A40, MB xyz, BMW LL xx or certain APIs, 0W, etc. are specified, you can't make it with old dino if it even exists these days. Basically talking about typical "modern" oil average OCI of all owner's manuals.

 

[macarose]

In most rust free areas of the country a daily driver can last 20 to 25 years. Pretend I never said this if you own a CVT, small engine turbo, or a direct injection engine.

Oil changes are cheap in my opinion. We have enough oil specials and clearances highlighted here that the 10k OCI isn't a worthwhile habit to pursue or discuss.

What is? Quality filters, parts that only need to be replaced once, taking care of small issues before they ever become big ones. Extending the life of batteries. Preventative maintenance... from hoses and belts to detailing and replacing fluids that aren't mentioned in the owners manual..

Figuring out interesting ways to make a car endure the ages is what BITOG is all about.

OCIs? It's too vehicle specific and again, replacing oil is cheap for most of us.