^^^ Members here cut open a lot of different brand oil filters. Purolators, and Purolator made filters clearly have an issue with media tearing. And this big slug of reported tears have never happened here before over the last 10 years. That should mean something.
Are the black Bosch Premium filters tearing also?
- Thread starter Islandvic
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Purolator filters tear, even when they are mislabeled and masquerading as something else (in this case, Bosch)
Buy a Bosc filter made by Bosch themselves, and you won't have any problems. I suggest eBay.co.uk or amazon.co.uk for authentic Bosch filters made by Bosch in a Bosch factory.
I've commented before on how takeovers/joint ventures/amalgamations are usually for reasons of cost cutting, which is what you guys in NA are seeing with puro junk marked up as Bosch.
Buy a Bosc filter made by Bosch themselves, and you won't have any problems. I suggest eBay.co.uk or amazon.co.uk for authentic Bosch filters made by Bosch in a Bosch factory.
I've commented before on how takeovers/joint ventures/amalgamations are usually for reasons of cost cutting, which is what you guys in NA are seeing with puro junk marked up as Bosch.
Quote:
Purolator filters tear, even when they are mislabeled and masquerading as something else (in this case, Bosch)
Buy a Bosc filter made by Bosch themselves, and you won't have any problems. I suggest eBay.co.uk or amazon.co.uk for authentic Bosch filters made by Bosch in a Bosch factory.
I've commented before on how takeovers/joint ventures/amalgamations are usually for reasons of cost cutting, which is what you guys in NA are seeing with puro junk marked up as Bosch.
To be entirely accurate regarding the US made Bosch, what you said was (linked and quoted here)
"That's what happens when one company buys the rights to manufacture under license.
Bosch make their own filters in their own factory, Mann make their own filters in their own factory.
Neither are US companies, but US interests bought the right to slap the Mann & Bosch names on US produced filters. This is where the problem comes from......"
As my previous response corrected the inaccuracies in your statement, not need to repeat it all as others can read the link. The main point though doesn't change, Bosch and Mann&Hummel co-owned Purolator since 2006. First quarter 2013 Bosch sold it's share to M&H making them sole owner since. So bottom line, anything happening at Purolator 2006-2013 is completely on the co-owners and since 2013 to the present entirely on Mann as sole owner. The buck stops with them, period.
And afaik no one is forcing Bosch to continue to have their filters made by M&H owned Purolator. They must be satisfied with M&H US filter manufacturing. And if anything is marked up junk, it Bosch that's making that decision too. So again, it's Bosch's call, not Purolator.
As for the topic, considering the OP's premise regarding Bosch manufacturer was incorrect and already using another brand no reason to address that.
As for the tears, no doubting the anecdotes posted here. As for it being truly empirical data, though I have an opinion I'll leave that to others to debate/discuss. Basically is what it is.
I will say that regularly reading this board that 'imo' there are some that don't want to see positive Puro anecdotes, several of which posted recently have been very much so. Even what looks be a manufacturing change and possible improvement was 'imo' met with some skepticism regarding it's authenticity. Another member 'imo' recently had the veracity of his positive anecdotes questioned and his integrity challenged. To put it mildly, that is a very unfortunate circumstance.
As for the competing brand involvement. Again after much observation on this board I've come to suspect there likely has been what I refer to as shenanigans regarding some consistent anti Puro commentary in the past. That said, with those it hasn't been only Puro and I believe it to be very limited. So what I've done when I've seen inaccurate or hearsay posted as fact, is call it out and ask for credible authoritative links. If none is provided, it remains as unproven hearsay.
My .02
Purolator filters tear, even when they are mislabeled and masquerading as something else (in this case, Bosch)
Buy a Bosc filter made by Bosch themselves, and you won't have any problems. I suggest eBay.co.uk or amazon.co.uk for authentic Bosch filters made by Bosch in a Bosch factory.
I've commented before on how takeovers/joint ventures/amalgamations are usually for reasons of cost cutting, which is what you guys in NA are seeing with puro junk marked up as Bosch.
To be entirely accurate regarding the US made Bosch, what you said was (linked and quoted here)
"That's what happens when one company buys the rights to manufacture under license.
Bosch make their own filters in their own factory, Mann make their own filters in their own factory.
Neither are US companies, but US interests bought the right to slap the Mann & Bosch names on US produced filters. This is where the problem comes from......"
As my previous response corrected the inaccuracies in your statement, not need to repeat it all as others can read the link. The main point though doesn't change, Bosch and Mann&Hummel co-owned Purolator since 2006. First quarter 2013 Bosch sold it's share to M&H making them sole owner since. So bottom line, anything happening at Purolator 2006-2013 is completely on the co-owners and since 2013 to the present entirely on Mann as sole owner. The buck stops with them, period.
And afaik no one is forcing Bosch to continue to have their filters made by M&H owned Purolator. They must be satisfied with M&H US filter manufacturing. And if anything is marked up junk, it Bosch that's making that decision too. So again, it's Bosch's call, not Purolator.
As for the topic, considering the OP's premise regarding Bosch manufacturer was incorrect and already using another brand no reason to address that.
As for the tears, no doubting the anecdotes posted here. As for it being truly empirical data, though I have an opinion I'll leave that to others to debate/discuss. Basically is what it is.
I will say that regularly reading this board that 'imo' there are some that don't want to see positive Puro anecdotes, several of which posted recently have been very much so. Even what looks be a manufacturing change and possible improvement was 'imo' met with some skepticism regarding it's authenticity. Another member 'imo' recently had the veracity of his positive anecdotes questioned and his integrity challenged. To put it mildly, that is a very unfortunate circumstance.
As for the competing brand involvement. Again after much observation on this board I've come to suspect there likely has been what I refer to as shenanigans regarding some consistent anti Puro commentary in the past. That said, with those it hasn't been only Puro and I believe it to be very limited. So what I've done when I've seen inaccurate or hearsay posted as fact, is call it out and ask for credible authoritative links. If none is provided, it remains as unproven hearsay.
My .02
factual data must include success rates, of which none have been reported or cared about by said purolator muckrakers. BITOG members must feel pretty high of themselves to claim that their findings are even 1/1000th of a sample rate of 1%.
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Thanks for all of the responses and posts.
Again I apologize for my original post stating "Champion"... Pure brain freeze. Of course I meant "Purolator".
I decided to dump the oil and use the Mobil1-201 filter I got when I traded the 2 Bosch's in at AZ. I had some 5w-30 Pennz Ultra SN in my stash I used also.
Could the Bosch have run my usual 5-7k mile OCI without tearing? Maybe.. or maybe not. I decided to not find out.
I figured with the amount of quality synthetic oil in my stash roughly averaging $2/quart from sales, I can afford to be safe.
Again I apologize for my original post stating "Champion"... Pure brain freeze. Of course I meant "Purolator".
I decided to dump the oil and use the Mobil1-201 filter I got when I traded the 2 Bosch's in at AZ. I had some 5w-30 Pennz Ultra SN in my stash I used also.
Could the Bosch have run my usual 5-7k mile OCI without tearing? Maybe.. or maybe not. I decided to not find out.
I figured with the amount of quality synthetic oil in my stash roughly averaging $2/quart from sales, I can afford to be safe.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Purolator filters tear, even when they are mislabeled and masquerading as something else (in this case, Bosch)
Buy a Bosc filter made by Bosch themselves, and you won't have any problems. I suggest eBay.co.uk or amazon.co.uk for authentic Bosch filters made by Bosch in a Bosch factory.
I've commented before on how takeovers/joint ventures/amalgamations are usually for reasons of cost cutting, which is what you guys in NA are seeing with puro junk marked up as Bosch.
I remember when you boys were so carried away with British "quality" that Jaguar bought BOSCH fuel injection parts and put "LUCAS" stickers over the Bosch numbers on cars sold in the US.
We LAUGHED, because leaving the BOSCH number uncovered would have made a far better impression on us. Spare me your indictment of Puro, chavinist, it's obvious you are an America basher.
Purolator filters tear, even when they are mislabeled and masquerading as something else (in this case, Bosch)
Buy a Bosc filter made by Bosch themselves, and you won't have any problems. I suggest eBay.co.uk or amazon.co.uk for authentic Bosch filters made by Bosch in a Bosch factory.
I've commented before on how takeovers/joint ventures/amalgamations are usually for reasons of cost cutting, which is what you guys in NA are seeing with puro junk marked up as Bosch.
I remember when you boys were so carried away with British "quality" that Jaguar bought BOSCH fuel injection parts and put "LUCAS" stickers over the Bosch numbers on cars sold in the US.
We LAUGHED, because leaving the BOSCH number uncovered would have made a far better impression on us. Spare me your indictment of Puro, chavinist, it's obvious you are an America basher.
Originally Posted By: abycat
I will never use a purolator or bosch on Any of my vehicles. fram is the only one I'll use from about 2 years ago on. I don't want to give any of my money to a company who clearly doesn't care about its customers.
Yup, that OCOD is a real winner. Is there ONE instance of engine damage due to a tear..you know, like the MOPAR guy who lost an engine because of a FRAM OCOD faliure and started this whole look inside oil filters game.
I will never use a purolator or bosch on Any of my vehicles. fram is the only one I'll use from about 2 years ago on. I don't want to give any of my money to a company who clearly doesn't care about its customers.
Yup, that OCOD is a real winner. Is there ONE instance of engine damage due to a tear..you know, like the MOPAR guy who lost an engine because of a FRAM OCOD faliure and started this whole look inside oil filters game.
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Members here cut open a lot of different brand oil filters. Purolators, and Purolator made filters clearly have an issue with media tearing. And this big slug of reported tears have never happened here before over the last 10 years. That should mean something.
Not to me.
^^^ Members here cut open a lot of different brand oil filters. Purolators, and Purolator made filters clearly have an issue with media tearing. And this big slug of reported tears have never happened here before over the last 10 years. That should mean something.
Not to me.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Members here cut open a lot of different brand oil filters. Purolators, and Purolator made filters clearly have an issue with media tearing. And this big slug of reported tears have never happened here before over the last 10 years. That should mean something.
Not to me.
Whatever floats your boat ... your money, your decision be it right or wrong.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Members here cut open a lot of different brand oil filters. Purolators, and Purolator made filters clearly have an issue with media tearing. And this big slug of reported tears have never happened here before over the last 10 years. That should mean something.
Not to me.
Whatever floats your boat ... your money, your decision be it right or wrong.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
factual data must include success rates, of which none have been reported or cared about by said purolator muckrakers. BITOG members must feel pretty high of themselves to claim that their findings are even 1/1000th of a sample rate of 1%.
Doesn't take a statistical genius to understand that not every faulty Purolator just happens to get cut open by only BITOG members and posted up here - what would those odds be?
Based on the number of reported failures by the small sample group, I'd say it's way more widespread than 1/1000th of 1%.
factual data must include success rates, of which none have been reported or cared about by said purolator muckrakers. BITOG members must feel pretty high of themselves to claim that their findings are even 1/1000th of a sample rate of 1%.
Doesn't take a statistical genius to understand that not every faulty Purolator just happens to get cut open by only BITOG members and posted up here - what would those odds be?
Based on the number of reported failures by the small sample group, I'd say it's way more widespread than 1/1000th of 1%.
At first I also dismissed the Purolator/Bosch tearing phenomenon to be just a bunch of oil geeks over analyzing a rare problem with anecdotal evidence, but then I saw first hand the tears. 4 filters in a row made by Bosch and Purolator, used on two separate vehicles. All showing signs of tearing as documented by countless others.
Im staying away from the brand now.
Im staying away from the brand now.
If my car's cold start up knock has disappeared since swapping the OF I will consider the swap a success. It hasn't knocked for 4 days.
out: Fram TG
in: the black can Bosch Premium oil filter
out: Fram TG
in: the black can Bosch Premium oil filter
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
BITOG members must feel pretty high of themselves to claim that their findings are even 1/1000th of a sample rate of 1%.
Let's do the numbers and have some fun. 1/1000th of 1% equated to a failure rate of 1 in 100,000.
Since there have been 34 reported Purolator media tears over a relatively short period [ Media Tears Summary ] , that means that there must have been 3,400,000 oil filters made and all 34 landed in the hands of BITOG members who also just happened to cut them open to find torn media. Yeah, that's real believable ... LOL.
BITOG members must feel pretty high of themselves to claim that their findings are even 1/1000th of a sample rate of 1%.
Let's do the numbers and have some fun. 1/1000th of 1% equated to a failure rate of 1 in 100,000.
Since there have been 34 reported Purolator media tears over a relatively short period [ Media Tears Summary ] , that means that there must have been 3,400,000 oil filters made and all 34 landed in the hands of BITOG members who also just happened to cut them open to find torn media. Yeah, that's real believable ... LOL.
Originally Posted By: jorton
If my car's cold start up knock has disappeared since swapping the OF I will consider the swap a success. It hasn't knocked for 4 days.
out: Fram TG
in: the black can Bosch Premium oil filter
That's an interesting anecdote. You should cut it open at the end of the oci and post results.
If my car's cold start up knock has disappeared since swapping the OF I will consider the swap a success. It hasn't knocked for 4 days.
out: Fram TG
in: the black can Bosch Premium oil filter
That's an interesting anecdote. You should cut it open at the end of the oci and post results.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
34 landed in the hands of BITOG members who also just happened to mangle the media while attempting to open the filter
fixed that for you.
Don't change posts. There's no need to discredit the folks that are finding tears in their oil filters - I found an obvious tear in a Bosch 3330 Premium. As a tear can be considered a complete failure, I won't use them again until there's assurance the problem has been fixed.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
34 landed in the hands of BITOG members who also just happened to mangle the media while attempting to open the filter
fixed that for you.
Don't change posts. There's no need to discredit the folks that are finding tears in their oil filters - I found an obvious tear in a Bosch 3330 Premium. As a tear can be considered a complete failure, I won't use them again until there's assurance the problem has been fixed.
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
34 landed in the hands of BITOG members who also just happened to mangle the media while attempting to open the filter
fixed that for you.
False assumption. So explain how there are magically tears on the opposite end of where the filter was cut open ... and why it's only Purolators that guys magically damage media when cutting, yet nobody else damages media when cutting other than Purolators. Huuummmm ...
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
34 landed in the hands of BITOG members who also just happened to mangle the media while attempting to open the filter
fixed that for you.
False assumption. So explain how there are magically tears on the opposite end of where the filter was cut open ... and why it's only Purolators that guys magically damage media when cutting, yet nobody else damages media when cutting other than Purolators. Huuummmm ...
I found this thread thanks to '901Memphis', who answered my question about filters in another thread. Recently, i did spend several hours scouring the web for details on oil filters. Among the few good reports i found, here is one link. Based on such a report, an average car owner like me has to make a compromise between filter price, performance and construction strength.
I have looked at the list of reported tears here in BITOG. Being a person of science, here are some of my observations:
[1] Clearly Purolator has a major issue, assuming that there is even distribution of BITOG members who use different brands of filters, and even distribution among those who regularly cut open their filters.
[2] Elsewhere on the net, someone reported his experience with cutting open many different filters, through many years. His observation is that the high performance filters, typically have issues - the count of tears on PureOne correlates with this observation. Consequently, other high performance filters are not immune to this issue.
[3] ...So, I have to question if ALL models of Purolator filters are equally prone to failure. For example, the model meant for my car is not reported as failure anywhere on the web. Are all models manufactured in the same, failure-prone fashion ?? I don't know.
[4] The PureOne filter i have purchased was 50% off on ebay @ $6.50 for my old car. This is a great deal, from what i see on the net. I am planning to run this for only 5k miles, instead of the 10,000+ miles that many members here have suggested for the Purolator PureOne.
[5] I saw on a youtube video a guy showing the failure on a Purolator Synthetic. He ran it for 6300 miles, and the oil looked pretty good still, despite a small seperation at one end of the pleats.
Let us say, i monitor my oil once or twice every week. How would i know that I have a oil filter failure, if i decide to use (considering all factors above listed), the PureOne i just purchased. Even if i find out that my filter has failed after 2k miles, i win, due to various conditions that pertain to my car.
I have looked at the list of reported tears here in BITOG. Being a person of science, here are some of my observations:
[1] Clearly Purolator has a major issue, assuming that there is even distribution of BITOG members who use different brands of filters, and even distribution among those who regularly cut open their filters.
[2] Elsewhere on the net, someone reported his experience with cutting open many different filters, through many years. His observation is that the high performance filters, typically have issues - the count of tears on PureOne correlates with this observation. Consequently, other high performance filters are not immune to this issue.
[3] ...So, I have to question if ALL models of Purolator filters are equally prone to failure. For example, the model meant for my car is not reported as failure anywhere on the web. Are all models manufactured in the same, failure-prone fashion ?? I don't know.
[4] The PureOne filter i have purchased was 50% off on ebay @ $6.50 for my old car. This is a great deal, from what i see on the net. I am planning to run this for only 5k miles, instead of the 10,000+ miles that many members here have suggested for the Purolator PureOne.
[5] I saw on a youtube video a guy showing the failure on a Purolator Synthetic. He ran it for 6300 miles, and the oil looked pretty good still, despite a small seperation at one end of the pleats.
Let us say, i monitor my oil once or twice every week. How would i know that I have a oil filter failure, if i decide to use (considering all factors above listed), the PureOne i just purchased. Even if i find out that my filter has failed after 2k miles, i win, due to various conditions that pertain to my car.
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Quote:
... I saw on a youtube video a guy showing the failure on a Purolator Synthetic. He ran it for 6300 miles, and the oil looked pretty good still, despite a small seperation at one end of the pleats.......
I've watched that same yt several times and other than the yt maker says 'uh ohh looks like we have a separation' I was unable to discern any specific separation nor did he further point to or identify the alleged specific separation area. As far as I could tell there was no separation or anything that would affect function. And later he says no leaks.
Combine that with statements like when referencing the adbv on dissection 'can you see it, it's clear' I guess talking about the place where the adbv was removed, implying that as proof the adbv was working, still held oil. Though I have little doubt the adbv was functioning as designed, that didn't prove it.
Based on his later description also obvious the OP had/has no idea what synthetic media is supposed to feel or look like.
Then he says, looks like the bypass didn't even open. Duh, no way to tell with dissection how often or if the bypass opened unless it was compromised and left in the open position, which it quite obviously wasn't.
Then he cut the media off and everything looks held together over the complete length of the media, ie, no separation again as far as I can tell.
And the guy finishes by saying the PSL is a good filter, replaced with same and going to keep using them.
Bottom line, difficult for me to put much credibility in the one mentioned in passing but unidentified 'separation'. And afaik, the PSL's posted here have not exhibited any tear or functional issues.
... I saw on a youtube video a guy showing the failure on a Purolator Synthetic. He ran it for 6300 miles, and the oil looked pretty good still, despite a small seperation at one end of the pleats.......
I've watched that same yt several times and other than the yt maker says 'uh ohh looks like we have a separation' I was unable to discern any specific separation nor did he further point to or identify the alleged specific separation area. As far as I could tell there was no separation or anything that would affect function. And later he says no leaks.
Combine that with statements like when referencing the adbv on dissection 'can you see it, it's clear' I guess talking about the place where the adbv was removed, implying that as proof the adbv was working, still held oil. Though I have little doubt the adbv was functioning as designed, that didn't prove it.
Based on his later description also obvious the OP had/has no idea what synthetic media is supposed to feel or look like.
Then he says, looks like the bypass didn't even open. Duh, no way to tell with dissection how often or if the bypass opened unless it was compromised and left in the open position, which it quite obviously wasn't.
Then he cut the media off and everything looks held together over the complete length of the media, ie, no separation again as far as I can tell.
And the guy finishes by saying the PSL is a good filter, replaced with same and going to keep using them.
Bottom line, difficult for me to put much credibility in the one mentioned in passing but unidentified 'separation'. And afaik, the PSL's posted here have not exhibited any tear or functional issues.
Nice to hear Ebay has some discounts on Puro, looks like all the trash talk about Puro is going to save me a few bucks. Except for a couple of OEMs one of my Camrys has gone 300K on Pure Ones. Looks like I did some SERIOUS damage using that filter.
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