Anyone run 20k+ mi. OCIs?

[MParr]

I’ll be waiting for the “super extended oil change police “ to swoop in on me for this. Why don’t some folks go back to the late 1940s- 1950s way of doing things and just change out the filters and keep it topped off? Don’t come back and tell me that didn’t happen. I know for a fact it did.

 

[BrocLuno]

There are plenty of folks over in the By-Pass Filtration Forum that have over 50,000 miles on their oil and it's still above 1.0 on TBN (with make-up oil at filter changes), and they are doing fine.

But it depends on a lot of things going right. NEVER a coolant leak into the engine, ever. Starting with really good oil like AmsOil or Pennz Platinum or Redline, etc. By their nature, these are cautious folks who check things a LOT. And they have spent $$ on UOA's...

To me, it's all a trade-off ... State of Cali Fleet Admin did studies in the late 1990's on their fleet of over 25,000 cars and light trucks and determined that the best trade-off point was 6,000 mile oil changes with filter changes at 12,000 miles. Vehicles were expected to last out to 200,000+, and then go to auction.

I drove my state truck to 258,000 following this schedule. It was still running like a top. But, at 150,000 or so, I switched it to HDEO 15W-40 because of the noises it was making (timing chains) on the dyno at biannual SMOG test time. Couldn't hear it in the cab, but standing in front of it under load it was pretty miserable.

Point being, you should not ever shoot for clean, clean,clean. You will spend more money on oil, filters, additives and gadgets, than just being prudent and seeing about a rebuild at 250,000.

They'll boil the block and heads then, so all the varnish and any sludge that might be there will be gone. You just want to get there in one piece with reasonable gas mileage and minimal oil consumption

 

[oil_film_movies]

BrocLuno, and possible fuel dilution needs to be detected to make long drains possible. I like what some Chrysler V8's do where they will actually set off a warning light when oil viscosity, as inferred from temperature & pressure, gets too low. All engines need that to do long drains with less risk. Also, oil Quality Sensors, such as what BMW and some others have used, can detect coolant contamination in oil, solving your concern.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm waiting on two pieces of evidence here:

1. Proof that extended OCI'S with a quality synthetic automatically leads to engine sludging.

2. Proof that engine sludge evades insoluble percentages and particle counts in an OCI.


All the proof you need is waiting for you at your local salvage yard.
I think all you extended OCI guys should spend some time there.

 

[Garak]

How many of those cars are junked because of sludge, or any engine issues at all? How many bad transmissions and bodies do we have, including wrecks? Certainly, some vehicles get junked because of engine issues, but really, are any in the junkyard specifically because of going 10,000 miles on M1 or Amsoil SS, for instance? Which ones, Merk?

If there's this supposed "proof," at least one BITOGer here should have reported having to junk a car because of his extended OCIs. It never happened with the taxis. I don't recall tig1 junking a vehicle because of sludge. Dave Newton hasn't had to junk anything from his OCIs, to the best of my knowledge. PSD didn't junk his last vehicle. I don't recall Doug Hillary junking his commercial or personal vehicles because of sludge.

If you want to change your oil often, that's fine. I have no issue with it. You don't, however, need to justify it based upon disasters that simply aren't happening. There are people out there who are neglectful, that never change oil, that never monitor the level, that don't use an appropriate lubricant. You don't need them to justify your OCIs, nor are they needed to validate or dispute appropriate extended OCIs.

Many people here running extended OCIs are doing so with something backing them up, including highly capable lubricants and UOA evidence. Recall that the real purpose of a UOA is to determine the continued service suitability of the lube. It is not an indicator of wear, or a way to compare one lube to another, or a way to choose viscosity, or an expression of BITOG voyeurism. So, if one is paying money for a UOA, and the UOA says the lube is suitable for continued use, yet the consumer decides to change early anyhow, there's really no point in running the UOA program, now is there?

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm waiting on two pieces of evidence here:

1. Proof that extended OCI'S with a quality synthetic automatically leads to engine sludging.

2. Proof that engine sludge evades insoluble percentages and particle counts in an OCI.


All the proof you need is waiting for you at your local salvage yard.
I think all you extended OCI guys should spend some time there.


I don't need to go to a salvage yard to see engines taken apart. I just go to work.

Here's 13,780 miles on Mobil 1 0w-40. Please point out where my sludge and varnish are at in the pic below:

 

[bbhero]

To the right side there.

 

[Silk]

Originally Posted By: Garak
If there's this supposed "proof," at least one BITOGer here should have reported having to junk a car because of his extended OCIs.


We have only seen one Outlander engine fail in over 10 years - it had done 170,000km with 3 oil changes...full of sludge and a blocked pickup. Obviously his extended oil changes didn't improve the life of the engine.

 

[MParr]

Something interesting I have gleaned. Some folks believe you can save money by spending money. I’ve never figured that one out. Used Oil Analysis costs are similar to an oil and filter change. Where did all of this extended OCI stuff start? Was it the auto manufacturers? I tend to think not. I think this idea was planted by any number of government agencies as an energy conservation and environmental tool. Hey, I do my part, I take my used oil in to be recycled.

 

[4WD]

The first time I heard of an UOA was on very large diesel generator sets … it was many, many years later (on this site) when I realized how many do it in small engines …
I still don’t … (and can read them here) … but keep OCI’s between 5k-10k - use OLM in warranty …

 

[MParr]

4WD
That’s a pretty reasonable reply. I tend to question many things. I happen to believe the oil life monitoring systems are nothing more than an updated idiot light. Most of these systems have 10,000 mile limits. They all have to be reset. By resetting the OLM when you change the oil, you are actually entering that data into your vehicle’s computer. BAMMO! Stored info for the dealership to access via the OBD II Port. Engine trouble? Oil related? Claim denied!

 

[Bxnanaz]

Pretty hard to get real proof that extended OCIs will hurt your engine unless you buy 2 new vehicles off the lot with the same engine and drive both exactly the same. Extended OCIs with one, “traditional” with the other.

However, I do subscribe to multiple car repair YTers. (A lot of which are ford engine repair cause the Tritons and 6.0 powerstrokes keep them busy) and in every case of a triton roller rocker failure, or timing chain issues, it’s obvious the oil wasn’t changed religiously. All of techs when asked how to prevent this say “change your oil”.

I also know of (3) early tritium engines personally. (2) have 220k+, and (1) has almost 500k. All on the original engine and all claim they do their OCIs between 3-5k. Proof enough for me.

 

[4WD]

Well … Can’t totally share your cynicism wrt to OLM … they are multi million dollar R&D projects …
I do realize they have to take into consideration the OEM’s put some middle of the road lubes in … and sure you can reset if you like. I recently teased Tig1 that Ford’s black (box) ops group was watching him do that ...

But in reality when they first came out … many folks INCREASED OCI’s … the world is not the BITOG oyster

So yeah, with OnStar I can watch oil percentage when I’m overseas … If I can see it? Who knows …

 

[4WD]

Another way to view things … since I follow OLM that subject reset will match this:




Taken on day of oil change

 

[littleant]

Great photo Merkava_4 why 20K is not for me

 

[littleant]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
5000 mile OCI here:

3000 mile OCI here:

No comment needed the pictures say it all. Thanks for the photos Merkava_4. 5K works for me. The last photo looks like the inside of my engine. Compared to the cost of a new engine, oil and filter are cheap.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: littleant
No comment needed the pictures say it all.
Ummm...no they do not. Merk's credibility looks like swiss cheese as does his ability to snag photos from the Internet and label them as fact. Where is the tangible proof these engines have had the OCI listed, how many total miles do they have on them, etc. Anyone can post a picture and label it. Show me quantifiable, tangible proof that extended OCIs cause varnish and sludge--as I have said before, there are plenty here on this site doing extended OCIs with zero issues.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: MParr
Something interesting I have gleaned. Some folks believe you can save money by spending money. I’ve never figured that one out. Used Oil Analysis costs are similar to an oil and filter change. Where did all of this extended OCI stuff start? Was it the auto manufacturers? I tend to think not. I think this idea was planted by any number of government agencies as an energy conservation and environmental tool. Hey, I do my part, I take my used oil in to be recycled.
The objective is to only perform enough UOAs to determine the OCI and then begin to extend it thereby saving money in the long run. Unless you are going to run a UOA on every oil change, in the end, you will save money.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Bxnanaz
Originally Posted By: Crusher
RonRonnster
First of all, Welcome to this forum. There are many knowledgeable members with a wealth of information here. I started running a dual bypass filter with Amsoil SS 5w -20 in Jan 2016 after my 2011 Expedition was out of warranty. I'm currently 72k miles into my current oci. Occasional oil for top off, and filter changes keep my TBN viable
Cool and all, but why do this? Not trying to knock you or anything, just seems like you’re sort of “gambling” just for the heck of it. Not really saving any money. Legit question, once again I’m not trying to knock you
Explain your thoughts on how he is gambling. His approach seems to be very methodical and he has tested the oil to ensure that it is still viable. As long as the oil has remaining TBN, minimal fuel dilution, and remains in viscosity, what else would you ask of any engine oil--new or used?

 

[Scdevon]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

In the 30's the OCI was more like 1K, sometimes less and the 40's maybe 2K and the 50 into the 60 was the transition from 2K to 3K. Going to 3K was a tough sell. That was the extended OCI of its day.


My 1970 Mustang's owners manual says every 6000 miles and to make sure you use "Rotunda 6000 mile oil".