I daily drive carburated cars once the salt is off the roads. Ethanol does not play well with non closed loop fuel and spark machines. Performance, driveability, and economy are all degraded. I see a lot more trips to the E0 pump in my future. Ethanol belongs in my glass, not my fuel tank. I'm not a fan of the subsidies involved either.
Anybody have E-15 Ethanol concerns?
- Thread starter Capt W
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Ethanol is closer to 50% less BTU by volume vs. gasoline. So, E10 will drop your MPG by about 5% compared with pure gasoline.
That said, my experimentation with E85 (Tundra is flex fuel) was interesting, and didn’t follow prediction. E85 should be a roughly 35% drop (Ethanol has 55% of the BTU by volume), but I saw about a 25-30% drop in MPG and the truck ran better.
Two theories:
1. E85 is “up to” 85% Ethanol - so the batch at the local NEX pumps may have had less than 85% ethanol
2. E85 is much higher octane and this may have allowed the engine to run better ignition timing
Didn’t put a scan tool on it to verify any of the theories, and the price of E85 rose enough that it no longer made sense. When E85 was $1.99/gallon and regular was $2.99, then, E85 was cheaper per mile. But it was selling for nearly the same price, and the economics no longer favored E85.
Further, because the truck is flex fuel, Toyota halved the oil change interval. 5,000 for normal use, 2,500 for severe service. Regular Tundras, with the same 5.7 V-8 are 10,000 normal use and 5,000 for severe service.
So, clearly, there are concerns about the effects of ethanol combustion byproducts on the oil.
This is what I found:
Approximate energy content (BTU per US gallon):
Approximate energy content (BTU per US gallon):
- E0 (0% ethanol): ~125,000–125,500 BTU/gal
- E10 (10% ethanol): ~118,000–119,000 BTU/gal
- E15 (15% ethanol): ~115,500–117,000 BTU/gal
- E10 vs E0: ~6,000–7,500 BTU/gal lower (~5–6% less)
- E15 vs E0: ~8,500–10,000 BTU/gal lower (~7–8% less)
- E15 vs E10: ~2,000–3,500 BTU/gal lower (~1.5–3% less)
I buy 94 octane from the motorcycle dealer. $110 for a 5 gallon pail. Ouch!Currently running vp 110 in my mower
Not sure why someone in RI doesn’t set up a tank with 91 or 93 octane ethanol free and charge $1.00 over premium price for it. So many collector cars, motorcycles, and lawn business would buy it at a premium. But no one does.
I have experienced the same thing in our 2014 flex fuel T&C. The mileage does not suffer compared to the price so from a cost / mile E85 is a win for me. It also smells better coming out the exhaust...
It is usually 5-10 cents cheaper for E15 around here. I don't really notice a measurable difference in MPG in my old 2006 2.0l Focus that I drive to work everyday.
I worry about more evaporation in the heat of the summer vs the mileage loss. I think you lose on both when it is very hot outside. E15 doesn't start as well in extreme cold either. From 0 degrees to around 70 degrees is when i would run E15. Just my opinion......
I paid $12 gal, I think, last time I got it. It lasts me a long time if I fill up a metal VP can.
I think I'll take Honda's word over that of a dealership wrench on this and use E15 for fifty cents less a gallon when available.
The notion that this risks ruining the engine seems a little over-dramatic.
OTOH, we all naturally have some resistance to anything new and different and wonder what the catch might be.
Again - are you talking about 88 octane E15? Because that is not what this thread is about.
Im paying 4.97 for 90 E0 and I will keep buying it.
That pleasant, fruity smell is acetaldehyde. It's listed by the EPA as an air toxic and is considered a Category 1 carcinogen. Savoring the aroma is not a good idea. I've attached a SDS for more info.I have experienced the same thing in our 2014 flex fuel T&C. The mileage does not suffer compared to the price so from a cost / mile E85 is a win for me. It also smells better coming out the exhaust...
Acetaldehyde is the first oxidation product ethanol. Acetic acid is the second, and a major reason for the shorter oil change recommendations when higher ethanol fuel is used.
Your body metabolizes ethanol by the same pathway: Ethanol --> acetaldehyde --> acetic acid. That icky feeling of a hangover is largely due to acetaldehyde.
Breathe deeply and drink to excess.
https://www.fishersci.com/store/msd...endorId=VN00032119&countryCode=US&language=en
Ed
Costs more to make ethanol. Has higher VOCs too. More machinery, electricity, diesel etc. If I were the head honcho or supreme leader I would set in to ~ 5% MAX, essentially it would work in just about everything. Would have just enough of it as a detergent for the fuel at the bulk stations, still okay for water craft, generators ( with additive), wouldn't be too tough on pre 95' vehicles.
It is not ok to run it in my Ford Maverick hybrid per the owners manual. It really not new or different since it's been in the pumps in my area for 10 years or longer. I can run it in my flex fuel F-150 however the fifty cents savings is not worth the contamination of the oil or the possibly of more corrosion in the entire system and more frequent oil changes. Go ahead and run it in your vehicle if that's what you want to do.
Here's what Ford has to say about that:
https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...sSpv9DqmuFgGQtPKUvVEjtv-Ix6xWF0U1IBvFG4TM3CuE
According to Ford, your Maverick as well as every other Ford model built over more than the past decade can run E15.
EPA does claim that E15 may be used in anything built post 2000, but Ford says it may be used only in their products of the 2013 model year or newer.
This is the reason I suggested checking what the manufacturer has to say about E15 use rather than simply relying on the EPA's claim.
Thanks for the tip. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was huffing the fumes, I just have noticed the sweetness of the smell. It reminds me of going to the races and smelling the burned alcohol fumes in Sprint cars and Modifieds.That pleasant, fruity smell is acetaldehyde. It's listed by the EPA as an air toxic and is considered a Category 1 carcinogen. Savoring the aroma is not a good idea. I've attached a SDS for more info.
Acetaldehyde is the first oxidation product ethanol. Acetic acid is the second, and a major reason for the shorter oil change recommendations when higher ethanol fuel is used.
Your body metabolizes ethanol by the same pathway: Ethanol --> acetaldehyde --> acetic acid. That icky feeling of a hangover is largely due to acetaldehyde.
Breathe deeply and drink to excess.
https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC149510100&productDescription=ACETALDEHYDE+99%+10ML&vendorId=VN00032119&countryCode=US&language=en
Ed
Then why is it in the thread name? 88 octane E-15 is 87 octane E-10 with another 5% ethanol added to get 88 octane fuel. Pretty much exactly what this thread is about? We have had this for years up here and from my driving there is really no measurable difference in fuel economy. We can't buy 87 E0 up here either unless you drive to Iowa
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The thread is about the recent ruling that now allows stations to sell all grades at 15% ethanol. They have not raised the (R+M)/2 - so we now have 87,89 and 91 octane with 15% ethanol.
The title could be more descriptive but the OP's very first words were:
So based on that it should be pretty clear what the thread is about.
We also have in some areas here 88 octane E-15 - but that is a different handle. Not what this discussion is about. There are several old thread about it however. As mentioned multiple times that is a very different discussion - because you have the option to buy it or not, which we don't with the change to the normal grades.
I would think refineries would need to do some work for this to happen. Adding 15% E to any of the straight gasoline blends that they produce is going to raise the octane. Are they going to start producing a lower grade base fuel to accommodate this? I doubt they would want to change their process but maybe it isn't that much work.
I wish I could buy ethanol free at $12 a gallon!
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