E15 coming soon?

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NEWS From BoatU.S.
Boat Owners Association of The United States
880 S. Pickett St., Alexandria, VA 22304
BoatU.S. Press Room at http://www.BoatUS.com/pressroom

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Press Contact: D. Scott Croft, 703-461-2864, [email protected]
The EPA could decide to add up to 50% more ethanol to the nation's gas supply, without testing it first to ensure it's safe for millions of older gasoline-powered vehicles and equipment in the U.S.

Big Change to the Nation's Gasoline Supply Awaits EPA Approval

Tight Timetable and Lack of Testing Could Impact Consumers

ALEXANDRIA, Va., April 7, 2010 - This summer, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will decide on whether to allow a 50% increase in the amount of ethanol in the nation's gasoline supply, from the current E10 (or containing 10% ethanol) up to E15 (containing 15% ethanol). However, with testing data on the new "mid-level" ethanol formulation to be completed on only a small group of 2001 and newer model vehicles by this time frame, consumers with older cars, boats, non-road vehicles or gas-engine powered equipment may find that the fuel is not compatible or safe for use.

Boat Owners Association of The United States (BoatU.S.), the nation's largest boat owners group, is concerned. "Some of our members have advised us of performance, compatibility and possible safety issues with the current E10 blend," said BoatU.S. Vice President of Government Affairs Margaret Podlich. "To add 50% more ethanol to every gallon of gas without first knowing what it will do to the older vehicles and other gasoline engines we currently own, is simply irresponsible," she added.

The U.S. Coast Guard Office of Boating Safety has also raised concerns about higher levels of ethanol and the lack of independent testing. Ethanol, a strong solvent, can accelerate the deterioration of fuel system components such as fuel lines, causing them to fail and increasing the level of risk for fire or explosions.

Last year Growth Energy, the lobbying group for the ethanol industry, petitioned the EPA to allow the sale of "mid-level" ethanol blends beyond the current 10% (E10) up to the 15% level (E15). In a November 30, 2009 response , the EPA advised Growth Energy that, "Although all of the studies have not been completed, our engineering assessment to date indicates that the robust fuel, engine, and emissions control systems on newer vehicles (likely 2001 and newer model years) will likely be able to accommodate higher ethanol blends, such as E15."

However, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS), whose mission is to support an "informed national legislature," reports in a January 28, 2010 Report for Congress that the EPA's November response letter "Made no comment on the status of testing for older vehicles or for non-road engines". The CRS report also says, "Currently, no automaker warranties its vehicles to use gasoline higher than 10% ethanol," and "small engine manufacturers similarly limit the allowable level of ethanol."

The CRS report also says it's unclear if the current fuel distribution systems -- the pumps, tanks, delivery vehicles and underground gas lines -- can tolerate blends higher than E10. "Even if the fuel is approved by EPA for use in motor vehicles, presumably fuel suppliers could be unwilling to sell the fuel unless they are confident that it will not damage their existing systems or lead to liability issues in the future," the CRS reports.

The report adds a comment by the independent certification and testing company Underwriters Laboratories saying, "Under normal business conditions E10 at the dispenser (fuel pump) can vary from about seven to 13 percent ethanol. Assuming a similar variance would exist for E15, it likely under normal conditions ethanol concentrations would exceed the 15% limit."

"We recognize that alternative fuels must be brought to market in the U.S.," said Podlich. "However, there is also a growing awareness among consumers that corn-based ethanol is not the environmental panacea it was thought to be several years ago. Increased food costs, changes in land use, and the energy required to produce ethanol are now giving many Americans second thoughts."

BoatU.S. is part of followthescience.org , a coalition of 46 motor sports, environmental, food and citizen advocate groups asking for "science first" before the EPA allows a new fuel on the market. BoatU.S. is also a member of AllSAFE , the Alliance for a Safe Alternative Fuels Environment. The Association urges anyone who is concerned about a higher percentage of ethanol in gasoline and the lack of testing to contact their members of Congress.

###
About BoatU.S.:
BoatU.S. - Boat Owners Association of The United States - is the nation's leading advocate for recreational boaters providing over half a million members with government representation, programs and money saving services. For membership information visit www.BoatUS.com or call 800-395-2628.
 
How can they expect to decrease fuel efficiency of the fuel by 15% and then want car manufacturers to have a 34mpg corporate average within the next few years? These guys are absolutely insane.
 
Oh great, even worse gas mileage. Thanks corn lobbyists!
thumbsup2.gif
 
A couple of thoughts.

The small engines (I believe) may be retrofitted with larger jets. This will require wholesale conversion of existing equipment. The last I checked, jets cost about $15 each. But the gov't doesn't care, same as with forcing r12 to r134 conversions onto the public during the transitional period.

This should have an incredible impact on boating safety. I can imagine a boat dead in the water because of fuel phase separation, and waves are swamping the boat (or some other incident) with no way to keep up with pumping out the bilge, and watching the boat go down.

From a previous thread, I checked the availability of 100% gasoline in Michigan. There are only four such stations in Michigan - all at marinas.
 
The EPA must have concluded that boaters are the real source of massive GW and other pollution.
[while they use insane amounts of fuel to jet around]
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
The EPA must have concluded that boaters are the real source of massive GW and other pollution.
[while they use insane amounts of fuel to jet around]


uh, yeah - what he said. right. (sarcasm) funny though.

The only real problems I can forsee is with OPE and small engines. May be a problem for older cars, but not too likely.

The only serious (for me, anyway) downsides would be a decrease in MPG and how nasty Ethanol is toward aluminum. A good UCL will definately be a requirement then.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
What does ethanol do to aluminum?

Ethanol is corrosive toward zinc, brass, & aluminum. Some plastics are affected also.

Clearly aluminum is the one of concern here, but it doesn't seem to be too severe at E10. Anything above E10, from what i've read, seems to be more of a problem.
 
How can the gov't mandate E15 when almost every car sold today, outside of flex fuel cars, does not allow >E10?

I read the main protest the gov't is listening to on the E15 change is station owners. Station owners have liability problems running E15 through pumps not approved for >e10. There was some talk about the gov't indemnifying (i.e. gov't accepting responsibility) for damages caused by dispensing system failure (fires).
 
Originally Posted By: Scooter_man
Ethanol is corrosive toward zinc, brass, & aluminum. Some plastics are affected also.

Wrong. It's not the ethanol per se that is corrosive, but the water and other solubles that gets picked up with it. True, some plastics may be affected. But this should have been ferreted out by the material engineers during product validation.

A few decades ago, when E10 was a novelty, and nobody was sure what the long term effect of ethanol were, it was considered okay to quickly run a tank of E10 through your car on a road trip, but not recommended to let E10 sit in the car for too long.
 
When E10 first came out it destroyed some of the plastic and rubber parts in fuel systems. On boats you saw lots of destroyed fuel hoses and carburetors plugged up with gooey o-rings and such. I think most engines built since the early 1990s can handle at least E10 in terms of dissolving parts. You still do have the problem that the ethanol attracts moisture leading to phase separation. Here's an old EPA article discussing this problem: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf
 
I can only pray that the engineers who design fuel systems in todays cars will validate the materials for all possible future fuels, i.e., E15, E20, etc..., and not just E10.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
From a previous thread, I checked the availability of 100% gasoline in Michigan. There are only four such stations in Michigan - all at marinas.

There are more than four but they are pretty much all marinas and marina gas is a lot more expensive. Pure-Gas.org lists a Michigan gas station that you might be able to get to.
 
Since most marina gas most places is the same E10 as road gas, I would highly advise boaters to avoid purchasing such gas from marinas in the spring. It has probably been sitting in the tanks all winter. Far better to jug your gas until someone else has pumped the water out from the bottom of the big tanks.
 
Man, that Marathon station in Trenton isn't that far away.

But I'm wondering, how is it possible that, one single Marathon out off all the Marathon stations around here, IT would have pure gas. But all the others dont?

Doesnt make sense to me.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong... I understand that the ethanol is not pumped with the gas through the pipelines, and that it is trucked. So it must be blended somewhere after the gasoline is pumped, probably at the terminal. This would allow 100% gasoline to be available at terminals.

I looked up that Marathon station in Trenton. It doesn't show up in gasbuddy.com, and it's close to the river. I'm guessing it may be marina gas.
 
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