Warranties voided for E15 users

[veryHeavy]

"The only cars that would be warranted for use of the new E15 are flex-fuel vehicles, which are designed to use concentrations of ethanol up to 85 percent (E85)." - http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/...akers/index.htm "Automakers including Chrysler Group LLC, General Motors Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. criticized an EPA plan to allow gasoline containing up to 15 percent ethanol to be used in cars and trucks in the U.S., saying it may void warranties..... 'We have concerns about the potential harmful effects of E15 in engines and fuel systems that were not designed for use of that fuel,' Jody Trapasso, Chrysler's senior vice president of external affairs, wrote." - http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110705/OEM05/307059860/1186#ixzz1RKdnBwWs

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

And why? Are they still in the 70's? The main hardware difference between a FFV and a gas nowadays, appart fromfuel managment, is the fuel pump that has carbon inductor, instead of copper.

 

[djb]

Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini

And why? Are they still in the 70's? The main hardware difference between a FFV and a gas nowadays, appart fromfuel managment, is the fuel pump that has carbon inductor, instead of copper.

There are major problems with changing to E15. Every bump in alcohol percentage comes with a major increase in corrosion activity and material incompatibility. E85 vehicles typically use stainless steel fuel lines, which are far more expensive and finicky than traditional steel lines. And ... do you mean that the fuel pump needs a carbon-carbon *commutator*?

 

[MNgopher]

Note that the articles are from 2011 - over 5 years ago. To be blunt, if an automaker is making cars today that aren't compatible with E15 today, that's on them, not the EPA. It is an approved fuel, and the automakers have to deal with it. Willing to bet that if you check the owners manual of any recently manufactured vehicle it will allow E15 use. I know that Ford manuals reflect that as of the 2013 model year.

 

[wemay]

My Toyota allows up to E15 as do most i believe. Maybe it's a current development.

 

[Nate1979]

Why are you trolling with old old articles? You posted the same topic already today.

 

[slo town]

Ethanol laced fuel should be a moot point. The World has an abundance of gasoline. Look at gasoline prices if in doubt. To continue using ethanol in our fuel demonstrates the power of the corn lobbyists. --Scott

 

[HerrStig]

My 08 Toyota book says E10 and no higher.

 

[BrocLuno]

There are a lot of motorcycles, outboards, snow-mobiles and OPE that are not going to be happy. AMA tried to get EPA to reserve one classification of fuel to 10% (such as just premium, or mid-grade) but to no avail ... Marine fuel and Av-Gas will not be E-15, but many of those locations will not sell to "container customers" Grrrr ...

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno

There are a lot of motorcycles, outboards, snow-mobiles and OPE that are not going to be happy. AMA tried to get EPA to reserve one classification of fuel to 10% (such as just premium, or mid-grade) but to no avail ... Marine fuel and Av-Gas will not be E-15, but many of those locations will not sell to "container customers" Grrrr ...

so maybe I'm stupid for asking this, but, knowing that the VAST majority of fuel sold in the US has ethanol in it, in varying concentrations, why don't the OPE,etc manufacturers update their materials to be ethanol friendly? I know in my area there IS NO E0 gas available. (also only 1 e85 pump in the county)

 

[oldhp]

My 2010 Ford Ranger 2.3/auto says NO E15 or E85. 2016 Challenger R/T Hemi says 0 to 15% ethanol. You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle. Some will say its the higher octane, but they run no different on 89/93 octane E-10 fuel. Ethanol is still supported by our tax dollars. Why??? If its so good, shouldn't it stand on it's own performance in the fuel industry.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: oldhp

You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle.

Slower right? Flex fuel vehicles gain hp on higher concentrations of ethanol.

 

[oldhp]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

[quote=oldhp]You would not believe the difference using 91 octane E-ZERO fuel in either vehicle.

Slower right? Flex fuel vehicles gain hp on higher concentrations of ethanol. Nope. Smoother, better running engines with better MPG using E-Zero. Gasoline has more thermal units than ethanol. You could use ethanol's power if compression was at least 14:1 and engine was tuned for it. But, less MPG. The R/T is under 11:1 compression, E85 would be useless with that compression ratio. You can't run two distinctly different fuels with the same engine specs, VVT or not. Just my opinion....

 

[Jarlaxle]

Your opinion is not supported by facts.

 

[oldhp]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

Your opinion is not supported by facts.

Please explain.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Ethanol fuel is out of control. If they force E15 to be used in vehicles that are designed for a max of E10 and it causes damage and repair cost to the consumer, then I hope there's a class action lawsuit against the idiots trying to force E15 on everyone.

 

[veryHeavy]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979

Why are you trolling with old old articles? You posted the same topic already today.

I repeat: No I didn't. Different articles. The Prius upto 2010 used a rubber bag inside its fuel tank. I have been told by owners that anything higher than E10 will dissolve the rubber.

 

[turtlevette]

Thast's a sleezebag move for the manufacturers to void warranties without providing a technical reason. If they can't build every car to handle up to e85 they have no business selling in the USA. Go sell your junk in china.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Thast's a sleezebag move for the manufacturers to void warranties without providing a technical reason. If they can't build every car to handle up to e85 they have no business selling in the USA. Go sell your junk in china.

The technical reason is that they didn't design the cars for E15, only for E10. It costs more money to build a car that can handle E85. There's hardly any E85 pumps in MA so why should the automakers build cars to handle a fuel that isn't readily available? They do everything they can to shave a nickle or a dollar off every system as it is, they're not going to waste money on something that's not even required. Voiding a warranty because a person used something that it wasn't designed to use is a perfectly legitimate reason.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Thast's a sleezebag move for the manufacturers to void warranties without providing a technical reason. If they can't build every car to handle up to e85 they have no business selling in the USA. Go sell your junk in china.

The technical reason is that they didn't design the cars for E15, only for E10. It costs more money to build a car that can handle E85. There's hardly any E85 pumps in MA so why should the automakers build cars to handle a fuel that isn't readily available? They do everything they can to shave a nickle or a dollar off every system as it is, they're not going to waste money on something that's not even required. Voiding a warranty because a person used something that it wasn't designed to use is a perfectly legitimate reason.

"It wasn't designed to do that" is not technical. Thats a line of horse that you give to some stupid business major who thinks its a technical reason. Capiche? Thats the problem with car companies. Too many business majors.